Wormhole Guard Posts

[Mánagarmr]

So these things have annoyed med greatly ever since they were made non-cloaky. I know their purpose is to serve as a reinforcement point for the AI, but why were they "brought into the light" in the first place? I can't really remember.

Because you see I'm quite the OCD person, so when I neuter a planet, I NEUTER it, and blowing up those posts is about as fun as watching paint dry. I honestly preferred when they were permainvisible, because they weren't laughing in my face.

So, I assume they exist to simplify the reinforcement logic so that you don't have to "reinforce at posts AND wormholes" but simply have "reinforce at posts". But could this be fixed somehow? Also what does the community think?

- Do the WHGP add anything fun to the gameplay?
- Do we WANT to be able to completely cripple a planet? (or can you let wormholes be a reinforcement post?)
- Can the system defense be solved in some creative way so we don't have these fat arses sitting on the wormhole laughing at OCD people?

[Lancefighter]

I think a while ago I found out that you could see them via emps. I'm not really sure when this was, but it was a long time ago, and shortly after that they became uncloaked. Not exactly sure *why* they became uncloaked, but thats just the order of events I remember.
I really cant answer the other questions - I kinda feel like crippling a planet should require constant attention of some sort, but I am not sure that that actually means as far as game design.

Also, bonus picture!
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3569927/Screenshot_2012_10_28_15_55_45.png
OP wormhole guard posts right there.

[Hearteater]

I like WHGPs.  The only thing I don't like is them shooting.  The sound bothers me.  I wish they had an invisible, silent attack that did no damage and didn't show up in their tooltip.  That change by itself would make them perfect.

[zoutzakje]

I'm still thinking about the idea of giving them 1/4 their current hp, big guns on it, and only attacking you when you attack them. May not be much of an improvement, but at this point anything is better than just waiting till they finally blow up.

[Diazo]

I'm certainly not saying these should not be changed, but the current 'design philosophy' on these as I understand them is that they are not supposed to be destroyed so it is a major chore to do so.

It is why they were originally cloaked with tachyon immunity, they were not supposed to be detected, much less destroyed at that time.

Then the EMP workaround was discovered and people started destroying them quite often, which led to the change to the wormhole post we have today.

Having said that, the question that needs answering is "Should wormhole guard posts be destroyed as a normal part of the game?"

Currently I see the answer as no.

As for what I want to see, I'm torn. I would like to be able to neuter a system of everything but I'm worried this would lead to setting up highways between outpost planets too easily.

As it currently stands, I generally don't have issues with the WHGP on the highways I set up unless I don't use that highway for an hour or two and allow the reinforcements to build back up again.

So, what are your thoughts on "Should wormhole guard posts be destroyed as a normal part of the game?"

D.

[Mánagarmr]

So, what are your thoughts on "Should wormhole guard posts be destroyed as a normal part of the game?"

No, I don't think they should. I'd quite frankly rather not see them at all

[Hearteater]

I'm ok with them being destroyed, just because I think highways aren't really a bad idea, as long as there is a cost to making them.

At present the cost to me is basically a DPS check because they have huge health.  But some OCD people feel compelled to kill them anyway, and they can do that because high health isn't a true DPS check, but instead a patience check.  So instead, what if their health was lowered heavily and they received an in-combat regeneration rate such that it cancelled something like a full cap of Mark I-III triangle ships DPS (arbitrarily selected DPS value).

Or, I could see them immune to damage from Mark I & II ships, and their health reduced to compensate.

[Winge]

I'm ok with them being destroyed, just because I think highways aren't really a bad idea, as long as there is a cost to making them.

At present the cost to me is basically a DPS check because they have huge health.  But some OCD people feel compelled to kill them anyway, and they can do that because high health isn't a true DPS check, but instead a patience check.  So instead, what if their health was lowered heavily and they received an in-combat regeneration rate such that it cancelled something like a full cap of Mark I-III triangle ships DPS (arbitrarily selected DPS value).

Or, I could see them immune to damage from Mark I & II ships, and their health reduced to compensate.

I definitely agree that they are a patience check more than anything else (well, unless you get the Galactic Capitol in Fallen Spire.  Those poor, poor WHGPs...).

I have another idea, although I'm not sure if it would be better or worse (or easier to implement) than your suggestion (includes all of the bullet points):

• Greatly decrease their HP (at least by 1/2)
• Give them attack that works similarly to the Vulture, except dependent on its own HP.  The WHGP deals the same pitiful damage, but quickly ramps up to Guard Post level once it gets to 90% HP (max multiplier at 80-90% hp left--basically, proof that the player is committing, and not just firing pot shots around).
• Give them a moderately short regeneration time (20:00?), so that if the player decides that they shouldn't have irritated the WHGP, they can let it go back to 'calm mode' without having a permanent obstacle.

[evil] Of course, if Keith really doesn't want players killing them, he could give them a +AIP on death that applies if the player(s) kill the WHGP without taking out the Command Station. [/evil]

[Wanderer]

- Do the WHGP add anything fun to the gameplay?

Small reinforcement groups run into guardians and larger reinforcement groups cause guardian churn, eventually ending up with an evil one (EMP, WarpGate, etc).

- Do we WANT to be able to completely cripple a planet? (or can you let wormholes be a reinforcement post?)

Yes, I want to be able to completely cripple a planet for some cost.  I LIKE my highways if I choose to invest time/resources/whatever.

[Mánagarmr]

So I guess the question is how we make them something other than a darn snorefest to remove?

[LaughingThesaurus]

What about giving them very big guns that don't shoot at you until you start shooting at them, then drop their HP a whole lot? Give an HP Regeneration effect and absolutely no 'I can't damage this hull type' multipliers, and they might just be difficult to take out, rather than requiring patience and nothing else.
Otherwise, Tachyon Immunity, Cloaking, and EMP immunity. Make them invisible again so that I don't feel like I have to shoot them when I'm bored.

[Coppermantis]

I don't like the idea of making them cloaked again. I want to be able to completely neuter a planet if want to (except, of course, for the CC). I feel like their health should still be a good deal higher than other guard posts which just melt under fire from any substantial fleet.

Maybe give them decreased health but very high armor so that armor-piercing ships would be effective at taking them out in a sort of timely manner? Of course, the player might not have armor-piercing so that's not optimal.

Otherwise, LaughingThesaurus' first idea sounds good to me.

[Mánagarmr]

My goal here is either to make them a non-issue (by making them permacloaked and thus "not exist" anymore, remove them entirely, or make them not take so annoyingly long time to take down) so they aren't such a chore to deal with. Because right now I mostly ignore them due to them being a huge "non-fun" factor. My preference is simply taking them out and letting wormholes be a reinforcement post instead.

Sure, you can't permaneuter it, but what is stopping you from building a couple of turrets there to keep the wormhole clear?

[keith.lamothe]

Sure, you can't permaneuter it, but what is stopping you from building a couple of turrets there to keep the wormhole clear?

Lack of supply?

[Mánagarmr]

Sure, you can't permaneuter it, but what is stopping you from building a couple of turrets there to keep the wormhole clear?

Lack of supply?

Right. Forgot about that little detail