Author Topic: Defense Supply Mechanic  (Read 19133 times)

Offline Martyn van Buren

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 642
Re: Defense Supply Mechanic
« Reply #90 on: March 29, 2012, 04:42:15 am »
A couple of ideas, both out of left field:

1. I think that one of the big obstacles to using defense-in-depth is the annoying fiddliness of rebuilding command stations.  I often have a few worlds right outside my main borders and find that I just don't want to try defending them at all.  Perhaps creating something that would automate command station rebuilding in supply would help?  If it required supply, this would remove exploits where you could leave it on worlds in the middle of nowhere to rebuild after losing them.

Actually, I might even accept a really heavy change that would create a rebuildable structure that could support resource gatherers without a command station in supply, along with a cap on command station Mk I's.  But that would be very hard to get right and would have to scale with map size.  I think I oppose this idea, on balance.

2. The other thing is that as it is it's rare you face a wave that gives you a good reason to really want to break it up over a few worlds.  So perhaps we could create a class of very slow, very heavily armored ships which provide some kind of really significant bonus to the other AI ships traveling with it --- say, major planetwide munitions boost, speed boost, or armor boost, or even crazy things like missile or tractor immunity or carrying an ion cannon, probably calibrated with a goal of making a wave with such a bonus ship feel about twice as large (in difficulty terms) as one without.  The optimal way to deal with these would probably be to allow the other ships in its wave to move onto your next world so you can deal with them separately. 

I imagine they'd move at something close to shard speed, so they would gradually move forward and help their allied ships, but it would be very easy to separate them.  They'd probably also want to have a cap (increasing with mark-level) on how many ships they could aid, so getting a wave with one along with a CPA isn't instant death.  These would certainly need to be a lobby-option, and probably not a default-on.

But having something like this coming in with waves would give you a very good reason to use buffer-worlds.

-----

At any rate, I really dislike the idea of per-planet turret caps.  Playing on realistic, I almost always am doing multi-front defense, and being able to seal up some of them with turret overkill is really important to my strategy.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 05:51:48 am by Martyn van Buren »

Offline TechSY730

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,570
Re: Defense Supply Mechanic
« Reply #91 on: March 29, 2012, 09:54:25 am »
Defense in depth is a fantasy in the game at the moment

Although I would agree that smaller groups of turrets aren't holding up as well as they probably should, I wouldn't go so far as to say defense in depth is dead.

Admittedly, I have not faced any AI >8, but I still practice some defense in depth. At all times after I get a strong enough economy, I keep at least 1/3 of my turret cap on my homeworld. Only if the closest AI planet is like a dozen hops away would I go below that, and even then it would never go below 1/4 of my cap. After all, if I lose my home, I lose!
On my core worlds (planets adjacent to my homeworlds), I place a little more than half the number of turrets I do on my homeworld, though I am more willing to reduce that proportion a bit to make room for other planets. (I make an exception for core worlds that are "landlocked" by the homeworld, where the AI would have to pass through the homeworld to make it to that core world. In this case, I treat that core world like a planet I don't care very much about.)

A little less than 1/3 of my turrets goes to my "whipping boy" for waves. A moderate amount of turrets goes to any "backdoor" planets to help take out any loose threat or whatever.
On the planet(s) right behind my whipping boy and right behind my backdoors I'll place a few turrets. On all other planets, I barely place anything, often times only one of each turret, or possibly no turrets except for 4 snipers.

On each planet, I place turrets not only around each "at risk" wormhole, but also the command station, giving a bit of defense in depth within a planet as well.

When properly supported with a fortress, tractor turrets, and gravity turrets, this arrangement can hold off most waves, especially if I use a military command station on the whipping boy. Only the waves that the RNG gave a good boost too would need some assistance from my mobile fleet.

This arrangement does begin to fail with CPAs and exo-waves, but I figure I need my mobile fleet anyways for these, so I don't care. With mobile fleet support, this setup can deal with CPAs and exos just fine, though I typically will lose a planet or two in the process.

This does start getting tricky when I need to defend another "critical" planet, such as a world with a Mk. IV factory on it or something. I usually start taking a few turrets from some of the "inner planets" and move them to that world, and maybe stick a small mobile detachment there too, like a Spire capital ship or something.

In the later game, where waves start getting quite strong, I will leave a portion of my mobile military (if Fallen spire is on, one or two spire capital ships and maybe a plasma siege or two) to help out. But that still gives plenty of mobile military free for offense.


Again, this sort of setup might require serious adjustment or micro for it to work on lvl 9 and up, but this approach has worked very well for me.

Offline chemical_art

  • Core Member Mark IV
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,952
  • Fabulous
Re: Defense Supply Mechanic
« Reply #92 on: March 29, 2012, 07:38:33 pm »
I would luv a turret that encourages an AI to lower its inhibitions to attack the planet. Or a warhead. Something.
Life is short. Have fun.

Offline TechSY730

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,570
Re: Defense Supply Mechanic
« Reply #93 on: March 29, 2012, 07:42:48 pm »
I would luv a turret that encourages an AI to lower its inhibitions to attack the planet. Or a warhead. Something.

You mean a tool that "fools" the AI into playing "stupid"?

I still think that the "should I go in" cutoff needs to go down in general, even how the AI considers turrets remains unchanged.

Offline PokerChen

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,088
Re: Defense Supply Mechanic
« Reply #94 on: March 30, 2012, 02:10:51 am »
I would luv a turret that encourages an AI to lower its inhibitions to attack the planet. Or a warhead. Something.
Meet the AI at a bar and spike their drinks. Or something.

Offline Martyn van Buren

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 642
Re: Defense Supply Mechanic
« Reply #95 on: March 30, 2012, 02:42:16 am »
Isn't that pretty easy to game as it is?  Maybe not on higher diffs, but at 7-7.6 just withdrawing your mobile military a world back is usually enough to pull in some victims.