Do harvester upgrades now dominate econ command stations?

[Volatar]

How about letting the MkII logistics block a wormhole when placed next to it, i.e. while the station is up no AI unit can pass through that wormhole from this side (entering the system is possible, just not leaving so you can get in to attack the station but not out).

Redundant with the plentifulness of force fields these days.

[Diazo]

Backing away from the radical suggestions that totally change how command stations work here's another thought I had.

Pretty much the biggest reason I've heard for taking harvesters over economic command stations is at game start when you have not conquered any systems yet the harvesters boost your economy while the econ stations have no effect.

Add a "Resource Management Module" to the game to replace the economic command station. Limited to one per system this effectively grants the resource income of the economic command station without taking up the command station slot.

This would allow said module to be constructed in the home system at the start of the game so it could compete with the harvester upgrades. Numbers to be balanced correctly against the K cost.

The resource income of the Log and Mil command stations would have to be reduced or removed for balance probably.

I'm effectively taking the "give command stations modules so they can upgrade" idea and breaking it out as a separate structure so it works with the current command station setup.

Thoughts?

D.

[Draco18s]

Add a "Resource Management Module" to the game to replace the economic command station. Limited to one per system this effectively grants the resource income of the economic command station without taking up the command station slot.

Taking that to the next logical step:

Make 1 command station that does nothing but the sheer basic system control and supply.

Then have "command modules" (1 per system of any type) that perform the functions that the current command stations hold (and system owner only).  That is, one provides the speed boost/penalty, one provides resources, and the other fires translocating shots (etc.)

These modules are invulnerable (like command station foldouts) but can be scrapped in order to be replaced with a different module (this allows you to change the type of command station that is present in the system without having to go through the 4 minute cooldown from command station destruction) as well as transferring ownership on system ownership change (i.e. gifting the command station to an ally also gifts them the module).

[Hearteater]

I believe this is sort of what Keith already indicated he was considering.

[Draco18s]

I believe this is sort of what Keith already indicated he was considering.

Great minds think alike.

[Diazo]

Add a "Resource Management Module" to the game to replace the economic command station. Limited to one per system this effectively grants the resource income of the economic command station without taking up the command station slot.

Taking that to the next logical step:

Make 1 command station that does nothing but the sheer basic system control and supply.

Then have "command modules" (1 per system of any type) that perform the functions that the current command stations hold (and system owner only).  That is, one provides the speed boost/penalty, one provides resources, and the other fires translocating shots (etc.)

These modules are invulnerable (like command station foldouts) but can be scrapped in order to be replaced with a different module (this allows you to change the type of command station that is present in the system without having to go through the 4 minute cooldown from command station destruction) as well as transferring ownership on system ownership change (i.e. gifting the command station to an ally also gifts them the module).

The things is I was trying to keep the military and non-military applications separate. The command station slot has military applications (Military Command or Logistics) and the Management modules (Economic) at one per system so they can be balanced separately.

I see it as a playstyle question. Depending on how you play, you currently have to decide between economic or military for the command slot. This choice really can't be balanced because (for most people) depending on how you play you are going to choose economic or military and just build that one for every game.

Where I'd like to see it is everyone potentially uses all options depending on the map and strategic layout a specific game gives them and the only way I see to do that is split the military and economic applications so they can be balanced separately.

D.

[Draco18s]

I see it as a playstyle question. Depending on how you play, you currently have to decide between economic or military for the command slot. This choice really can't be balanced because (for most people) depending on how you play you are going to choose economic or military and just build that one for every game.

So you'd make it an "and"?

[Military or Logistics] and Economic?

[Toranth]

I see it as a playstyle question. Depending on how you play, you currently have to decide between economic or military for the command slot. This choice really can't be balanced because (for most people) depending on how you play you are going to choose economic or military and just build that one for every game.

So you'd make it an "and"?

[Military or Logistics] and Economic?

If we're doing Modular Command Stations, I think we should go all the way.  Give a couple of slots, more on higher tier stations.  Interior system?  Slap some resource or energy generation modules on there with a logistics "Speed up" module.  In a front line system, you might put in a "Slow down" module, a anti-cloak module, and a weapon module (translocator, or maybe long range missiles, or drone spawner, or something).  Link the module unlocks to other things - The speed-up/slow-down modules could come with the Zenith TimeSpace Manipulator, or the anti-cloak module with the Decloaker.
Severely restricting what can go on the station takes all the fun of customization away, while just adding complication (and making min-max playstyles easier).


As an alternative, someone also suggested buffing the Econ stations by letting them increase the max resource bank size.  For long, slow players like me, that would be a good reason to use them.  Of course, if there were a +bank module...

[Hearteater]

It has already been mentioned that modular units won't be part of the "core" game, so module Command Stations are out.

[Draco18s]

It has already been mentioned that modular units won't be part of the "core" game, so module Command Stations are out.

Which is a shame, really, but I can understand that desire.

Still, a command station with [one of three to five] external modules (i.e. econ, weapon, speed, warp jamming) isn't completely "modular" in the sense that we have it now.  Effectively?  Yes.  But it's more closely related to the foldouts the base game already has, combined with the "one per system" code already in place for things like energy collectors.

[Diazo]

I see it as a playstyle question. Depending on how you play, you currently have to decide between economic or military for the command slot. This choice really can't be balanced because (for most people) depending on how you play you are going to choose economic or military and just build that one for every game.

So you'd make it an "and"?

[Military or Logistics] and Economic?

To clarify I was talking roles, perhaps combat/non-combat would be better. Military and Logistics stations are combat, Economic are non-combat. In that sense, yes, I'd like the combat and non-combat to have their own 'slots' because how do you balance that?

Is the current situation unbalanced? Yes, but every person is going to find it unbalanced in a different way because it's like comparing apples and oranges so giving each system a combat and a non-combat slot is my suggestion as each slot can be balanced separately.

If we're doing Modular Command Stations, I think we should go all the way.  Give a couple of slots, more on higher tier stations.  Interior system?  Slap some resource or energy generation modules on there with a logistics "Speed up" module.  In a front line system, you might put in a "Slow down" module, a anti-cloak module, and a weapon module (translocator, or maybe long range missiles, or drone spawner, or something).  Link the module unlocks to other things - The speed-up/slow-down modules could come with the Zenith TimeSpace Manipulator, or the anti-cloak module with the Decloaker.
Severely restricting what can go on the station takes all the fun of customization away, while just adding complication (and making min-max playstyles easier).


As an alternative, someone also suggested buffing the Econ stations by letting them increase the max resource bank size.  For long, slow players like me, that would be a good reason to use them.  Of course, if there were a +bank module...

Except that modular command stations were shot down last time they came up so they are probably a no-go. That may change for the expansion pack but their has been no comments from the devs on it yet.

Keep in mind that everything has to fit into the game. As cool as a lot of the ideas being thrown around are, a lot don't fit and a lot are not possible within the game engine.

Hence my suggestion, it involves creating one new unit with no new mechanics so it could be done pretty easily I think,

Note I am not part of arcen, I don't actually know where the line between possible and not possible is beyond what the Devs have posted in the forum before.

D.