Author Topic: What happens if you don't get the (AIP) memo?  (Read 36210 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: What happens if you don't get the (AIP) memo?
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2013, 04:12:17 pm »
I don't actually have to include the text of the quote, because the author's name is sufficient.

Warheads, of course, why didn't I think of that.  Though the use of mkI and maybe mkII nukes did come to mind while making the original post in this thread.  MkIII would do it handily but that's not really what I had in mind.

Someday I do want to find some way of working in PvP in this game (that wouldn't amount to a game of Missile Command, which is already possible), mainly so I can see what kind of player behavior emerges to use all this stuff we're so used to in a different way.  Right now the idea I think would be most effective is to add an "AI Champion" role that's like "Champion Only" except reversing the friend-or-foe logic, visibility logic, and you spawn on the AI HW or something like that.  But it would probably need more than that (like some kind of hybrid-like support structure that the AI-champ players rely on that the normal players can bust up).

The main problem with it is that it would only apply to a relatively small subset of players: those who play MP, and within that those who would want to play non-co-op.  Though it would still be an odd kind of co-op: cooperating to produce the most !!fun!! ;)


Anyway, how 'bout them juicy AI command stations?  I still see some living out there.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline LaughingThesaurus

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,723
Re: What happens if you don't get the (AIP) memo?
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2013, 04:13:42 pm »
And actually a very entertaining (to me) variant of this thread's idea is to have 2+ people playing in MP with the goal of getting the other player killed first.  I assume high AIP would be involved.
Would be a fun PvP mode.
I feel like this needs to happen with counterattacks or something, and we need to have a house rule forbidding nukes on ally planets. You can't just blow them up directly. The idea is to passive aggressively kill your ally. Bonus points if YOU survive after your ally is dead.

Offline RCIX

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,808
  • Avatar credit goes to Spookypatrol on League forum
Re: What happens if you don't get the (AIP) memo?
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2013, 05:29:09 pm »
...And i spawn next to an III and IV world. Great.
You can probably take the III conventionally.  Nuke the IV.  Play like someone stuck tape over the AIP gauge.
..Which reminds me, your answer is "mark 3 nuke". That's how many you can wipe out.

:D
Avid League player and apparently back from the dead!

If we weren't going for your money, you wouldn't have gotten as much value for it!

Oh, wait... *causation loop detonates*

Offline Jonz0rz

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: What happens if you don't get the (AIP) memo?
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2013, 05:34:10 pm »
Hahah, my attempt ended in glorious failure at the 4:40 mark.

I accidently grabbed my spacedock when I was sending scouts, and triggered a MK. III Raid Engine.

Offline Coppermantis

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,212
  • Avenger? I hardly know 'er!
Re: What happens if you don't get the (AIP) memo?
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2013, 06:04:50 pm »
Hahah, my attempt ended in glorious failure at the 4:40 mark.

I accidently grabbed my spacedock when I was sending scouts, and triggered a MK. III Raid Engine.

You must have angered the RNG Gods.
I can already tell this is going to be a roller coaster ride of disappointment.

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: What happens if you don't get the (AIP) memo?
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2013, 06:48:24 pm »
..Which reminds me, your answer is "mark 3 nuke". That's how many you can wipe out.
Not really what I was looking for, but an honorable mention :)

Quote from: Jonz0rz
Hahah, my attempt ended in glorious failure at the 4:40 mark.
We have a winner!  Congratulations, you have died! ;)


Part of the fun of this is seeing players who range from "pretty good" to "ridiculously competent" just throw it all out the window.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Hearteater

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,334
Re: What happens if you don't get the (AIP) memo?
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2013, 07:16:35 pm »
Current status: I'm able to ignore waves (my choke is killing them without mobile units besides Riot Is) and take systems too fast for reinforcements to stop me.  The Special Forces blob looks to be around 1000 ships.  I pruned off about 200 but I'm sure they've been replaced.  They are almost entirely mark Is, so I'm not too concerned, although a bunch are Sentinel Frigates which can be annoying.  Note that I don't really have mark II fleet ships yet.  Now that I have SBS Vs, I'm just SS blobbing down worlds with my Spire Corvettes providing FF cover while the blades kill all the Guard Posts.  I don't even need to move from the warp point :) .  No Matter Converters (although I had to build 3 just to throw down the Super Fort, I scrapped them right after my ZPG finished a few minutes later thanks to a pair of Distribution Nodes).  I've only killed one Data Center so far.  Not really going out of my way to raid stuff.



Not shown is I have an Ion I and IV on the choke planet.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 07:20:18 pm by Hearteater »

Offline Diazo

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,717
  • I love/hate Diff 10
Re: What happens if you don't get the (AIP) memo?
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2013, 07:34:35 pm »
Why hello CPA.

Hello threat.

Hello failing to scout because I can't be bothered.

Hello "You have lost".

Well, this is kind of embarrassing. As you may have surmised, I misread the situation badly and paid for it.

My game setup was Diff 7.6/7.6, Vanilla/Vanilla, all AI Plots and Minor Factions off, lazy AI off on an 80 planet map.

This is as far as I got (Galaxy shown is from few minutes before the CPA that killed me is released):



My home world is circled in purple, my fortress worlds are green and yellow and my current target of 3 systems is circled in red.

Note the Threat and Wave count.

As I had been hammering the 3 systems circled in red, I thought the majority of the ships on the threat counter were in those 3 systems. Note the one on the right with the command station destroyed and 440 ships left.

Now, the wave counter is a 500 ship wave which I deal with easily, but the other 1500 is the first CPA of the game.

So, my yellow fortress system is the problem. It was the second system I put up and while I have two fortresses Mk I in it, I don't have many supporting turrets present, only 150 or so. Although I have backed them up with a Military Mk II command for the attack boost.

So, pretty straight forward right? 1,500 ships can be handled pretty easily as I stopped attacking to make sure my fleet was at max when the CPA hit. I have my fleet positioned to respond to whichever fortress world the CPA decides to attack. (At the time I did not know it would be the yellow circle (Bimb).

I expect that against 1,500 ships a system with 2x Mk II FFs defended by 2x Forts Mk I and 150 other turrets can hold for a short while to allow my fleet to arrive.

2,500 ships warp into Bimb and the system is gutted before my fleet arrives. The command station is technically still alive but both forts are down and a couple salvos later the command station goes down. Without the fixed defenses my fleet can't handle the 2,000 ships that remain and I pull it back to try and salvage the situation by trading systems for time.

It takes another 15 minutes, but I end up failing. The only defenses any world that is not circled has is a couple of mini-forts. The AI does split its fleet up and I start destroying it in detail as it goes after my various systems but it's still almost 2,000 strong when it decides enough is enough and crashes my Homeworld.

So, you know that 1,500 threat on the threat meter I thought I had contained in the 3 systems circled in red? Wrong. There's only maybe 200 threat in those 3 systems. I did not know this, but if you leave guard posts alive and destroy the command station, any ships still attached to a guard post do not release onto threat so all those ships in the red circle that I think are threat are not, it's all down south in Roadje, just west of the yellow circle, just waiting for the CPA to show up and ruin my day.

The other, and perhaps bigger mistake, was misjudging the CPA danger. AIP is up at 254, that's Mk II. In my normal games the first CPA is always MK I, and the second CPA is quite often Mk I also due to my playing low-AIP games.

This was a Mk II CPA, not a Mk I. 1,500 Mk II ships is a lot more dangerous then 1,500 Mk I ships.....

So ya, a couple of pretty stupid mistakes and this game is done.

Not sure what value it has for what you were looking for Keith, this is more a chronicle of what happens when you charge forward expecting an easy game and the AI making you pay for it then anything about balance and what can be done at 7.6.

D.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 07:55:21 pm by Diazo »

Offline LaughingThesaurus

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,723
Re: What happens if you don't get the (AIP) memo?
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2013, 07:40:56 pm »
Did you ever scout in that game ever Diazo? :P

Offline Zeyurn

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 117
Re: What happens if you don't get the (AIP) memo?
« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2013, 07:55:27 pm »
Here's today's progress, sadly we won't be able to do more until next week.  I forgot to screenshot in game so I loaded up the save after my friend left.

Haven't had a wave yet that seriously bothered us, picture shows the tooltip of one of my defensive positions although it's not showing the fact that the beam cannons include a mk 4.  As you can also see there's 8 blown up planets we just haven't bothered to colonize yet, we're taking entire chunks out of the map and then grabbing them afterwards.

We decided on a Stealth Master and a Camoflaguer AIs because we'd never done those before.

To provide a little more clarity on my strategy so far:  Leech Starships Mk 3 and Mercenary Parasites are keeping my army artificially high.  The chunk of 1556 that represents my blob of forces has at least 1000 reclaimed ships in it.  I took Spire Corvettes as a bonus ship, wife took Shield Bearers, and friend took Elec Bombers.  I took Military Command 3, wife took Logistics 3, friend took Econ 3.  I plan to hold all the major choke points with Mil-3 stations (due to fighting stealth AIs) with fortresses 1/2/3 as we get later into it.  All of my research has gone into turrets (spider and beam cannon) that improve the spire corvettes and defensive-ish stuff.  No research done in Mk1-3 fleet and no starship unlocks beside leech / spire corvette.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 08:01:53 pm by Zeyurn »

Offline Diazo

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,717
  • I love/hate Diff 10
Re: What happens if you don't get the (AIP) memo?
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2013, 07:56:41 pm »
Did you ever scout in that game ever Diazo? :P

Not really, no.

I have 'fortress worlds' that turned out to be more like 'paper worlds' up so I thought I was sitting nice and safe in my corner....

Ya. The AI had fun anyway.  :o

D.

Offline Cinth

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,527
  • Resident Zombie
Re: What happens if you don't get the (AIP) memo?
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2013, 08:21:34 pm »
Getting ready to push AIP over 800 here.

Clearing out a second branch of the X map (2 branches left around Fukin).

Murdoch is holding with caps of MK I and II turrets, forts and shields.  The cap of MK I turrets was a recent addition (around 700 AIP).  Going is slow.  I haven't found an ARS yet, so I've called in the Mercs.  The defensive fleet consists of MK V nanos and virals.  Adding Merc parasites to that and the merc enclave (just for drones, more targets). 

Everything else goes to clearing planets.  I hope to be able to secure the second branch here pretty soon.  I need the K and resources badly. 
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline Winge

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 601
Re: What happens if you don't get the (AIP) memo?
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2013, 08:44:53 pm »
I'll have to try this out next week as well (just seeing this post...I've been practicing Java, so less AIW time for me).  I get the feeling that I won't die easily, but I'll stop being able to take planets after 600 AIP or so.  I guess we'll find out  8)

I did 93,684 AIP once, but I don't think it counts if the game runs out of memory before the AI (or user, for that matter) can respond...
My other bonus ship is a TARDIS.

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: What happens if you don't get the (AIP) memo?
« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2013, 09:06:32 pm »
Hearteater's Exterminatus appears to be proceeding according to plan.  Oh well, can't have it all ;)


Quote from: Diazo
Not sure what value it has for what you were looking for Keith
Quite entertaining :)  It's also valuable to see even 7.6 still has some nasty pointy teeth if treated with contempt.


@Zeyurn: goodness you're mowing through that map quickly, looks like you've kill 26 out of 115 (22%) of the non-homeworld planets in under 3 hours.  How did humanity lose that war, again?


@Cinth: 31 hours.  So far.  Typical.

;)

Quote
I haven't found an ARS yet
:o

I didn't count, but it looks like you've had vis on at least half the planets.  Not a single ARS?


@Winge: literally melting the CPU qualifies for an honorable mention.  But you don't have to do it again.  Really, I think your computer is getting nervous just thinking about it.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Radiant Phoenix

  • Sr. Member Mark II
  • ****
  • Posts: 362
Re: What happens if you don't get the (AIP) memo?
« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2013, 09:12:03 pm »
Anyway we'll try it out on a 120 and see if we can take them all :)
Gotta catch 'em all! (And now I'm getting disturbing vibes by trying to match up the lyrics of the Pokemon theme song to AI war)

EDIT: Cinth, what are the single AI units on most of your planets?
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 09:18:47 pm by Radiant Phoenix »