What happened to fighters?

[Wingflier]

Something I've noticed about fighters is that their multipliers were either removed or reduced by a factor of 10.  Where fighters used to do 16x against polycrystal and 12x against medium, they now do 1.6x against polycrystal and 1.2x medium.  Were fighters made better against all targets and therefore less powerful against their "bonuses"?

I didn't see anything in patch notes.

[superking]

fighters now have a base attack 10x larger, and very high hitpoints at higher marks

[keith.lamothe]

I didn't see anything in patch notes.

http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Current_Post-4.000_Beta

Prerelease 4.035 , 3rd note.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

They had their multiplier decreased by 10x and their damage increased by 5x so theyre actually only half as good against bombers as they used to be.

[Wingflier]

Speaking of bombers, I'm starting to get the feeling that they don't have enough counters.  No defense/turret has a bonus against them at all, while "fighters" are pretty much the only ship that counters them, and according to you are now only half as effective.

What are your opinions on being able to counter bombers?  They are naturally one of the strongest ships in the game per mineral, and having very little bonuses against them in terms of defenses OR mobile ships, they seem so powerful compared to everything else.  In addition, they rip through force fields and buildings like nothing, and even rip Frigates apart in seconds.

I would like to either see them toned down (at least for the AI, since our Forcefields don't get the 4x bonus), or for more things to be effective against them.

What are your thoughts?

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Missile turrets actually ahve a bonus against bombers, tho turrets are rarely useful as counters per se.

[superking]

They had their multiplier decreased by 10x and their damage increased by 5x so theyre actually only half as good against bombers as they used to be.

and 5x more effective against everything else, plus the HP boosts, meaning they defeat their triangle counter, the frigate, on a 1v1 basis (and massacre them on a cost basis0 they are probably the most cost effective ship fullstop atm, but then they are the only one with the new balance change applied

[Winter Born]

4.037

The attack power of all the fighters have been reduced by half from the prior release, but also now have twice as much armor piercing in general.

[unclean]

What are your opinions on being able to counter bombers?  They are naturally one of the strongest ships in the game per mineral, and having very little bonuses against them in terms of defenses OR mobile ships, they seem so powerful compared to everything else.  In addition, they rip through force fields and buildings like nothing, and even rip Frigates apart in seconds.

A combo of EMP mines, missile turrets and raider craft (Space Planes, Raiders, Eye Bots, or Etherjets pretty much) is really, really effective. Later on when grav turrets, fortresses, and a logistic station are added to the mix bombers get shut down pretty hard.

I think bombers are kind of OP in the hands of the AI, though. When you have to build them they're still the best triangle ship/ship cap, but end up being balanced by their huge cost and build time (compared to for example fighters, which are wussier but more cost effective in general). When the AI can just summon 1000 of them out of nowhere they lose some of their balance.

[Wingflier]

I play with mines off, which maybe is my own downfall in that sense (but in some cases it's not really relevant like for example when you destroy a counter-attack post and 1000 MKIV bombers appear in a random system nowhere near the wormhole).  Raiders don't even get bonuses against polycrystal, Space Planes get a small bonus (x4), but laser gatlings and tachyon microfighters actually get a pretty big bonus.  Still, that's assuming I can even get my hands on those types of ships, and assuming that I do, that they will be able to stop a massive wave of MKIV/V bombers anyways.  For me it's not a question of whether they can be killed, it's how much damage they are going to inflict before I stop them.  They are ironically the hardest ship to kill (from my experience) and also the most capable of causing the player to lose.

The best way I've actually found to stop mass bombers so far is with mass Riot Control Starships that simply destroy their engines long enough to, eventually, kill them all off.  Though I think it's a bit unreasonable to expect the player to always have a fleet of Riot Control Starships on every planet that is in danger of being attacked by bombers, it also forces them down a tech path that shouldn't be absolutely necessary.

However, I agree with you that in the hands of the AI, which have no "time limitations" in that sense, 1000 or more of them are extremely hard to deal with.  By the way, Fortresses have a 0.01x modifier against polycrystal, so that is NOT an answer to bombers, in the least.

[unclean]

I have a habit of keeping an MK3 EMP warhead around for the rare counter attack wave. Big fan of Riots, too. Just kite them a bit to thin their numbers, send in a wave of chaff like MK1 fighters to draw the first volley and run MK2 Riots with Tazers in to lock them down before they can fire a second volley.

I'm a fan of Raiders and Space Planes because they can kite well, and even though Raiders don't have a bonus to poly they still do a lot of damage, and their lopsided attack and defense work well with tazer and emp tactics, too.  I've never even tried tachyons or gatlings because I've always thought of them as chaff, but what do I know. They're probably really good.

Also, having mines off definitely makes things harder. You really need to exploit the range of missile turrets to make them effective, so MK3 grav turrets and spider turrets sound like necessary replacements. Still...