What do you want the Champion to be?

[Lord Fiddlemeister]

I'm glad the champions are getting some attention now, but I was wondering what people are expecting from champions.
Personally, I thought that champions should grab your attention for the entire game (champion), while other people want to have champions to fill in the lulls of the game (normal+champion). I've created this poll hoping to provide some more information to Keith, as I suspect he designed the champion to be a gapfiller due to this quote:

- Virtually no one likes to play just a champ-only slot in MP.  This isn't so much a problem with the implementation as with the lobby tooltips, etc: it just needs to make clear that you'll want to also be playing a normal slot, or at least be team-controlling somebody else's units a lot of the time.

What do people expect and want from the champion?

[keith.lamothe]

What do people expect and want from the champion?

Obligatory reference: "do people want fire that can be fitted nasally?"

[Mick]

I choose "other", but I fully understand that what I expected from champions might be completely different than what others expect or want.

I think of the hero units in Warcraft 3, that would level-up, have cool cast abilities, and general supplement your main armies (talking about about general skirmish, not specific campaign missions where they become the sole focus).

For the most part, they seem to fill that role. I don't really like that they insta-respawn, I think if you lose one there should be some kinda cost like a cooldown or whatever, but I understand that you have to support the mode of a champion-only player who might get bored waiting (of course, they could always just ally-control in the meantime...)

But I play from the perspective of a Normal+Champion, so a unit that is going to require constant babysitting is pretty much not going to appeal to me. Nebulae that require complete attention take too much away from other activities, and at low levels end up feeling like slog-fests (three way I'm looking at you). I wish that the champion "campaign" interacted more with the main one in the way that spire does.

[TIE Viper]

Obligatory reference: "do people want fire that can be fitted nasally?"

Lol.

I must know, what is that a reference to?

[@B0FH]

Obligatory reference: "do people want fire that can be fitted nasally?"

Lol.

I must know, what is that a reference to?

The 1970s Hitchikers Guide To The Galaxy TV Serial - That does make me wonder why there are no "B" ARCs or giant mutant star-goats already in the game

[Wingflier]

Personally I think the ideal Champion should be somewhat micro-intensive, or at least having some kind of unique ability system that keeps the player engaged while using it.

I honestly have no idea how to make the Champion *fun* while playing the "Champion Only" role. Even with much more inspired abilities, you would still be spending most of your time watching your Champion just kill things slowly, which is insanely boring.

I think that if the Champion was a little riskier to use, like if you lost it, it cost money and time to rebuild, we would be able to buff its survivability and firepower to the point that a single player could actually make a difference using it in the game. It would also make it more interesting if the Champion could gain more experience outside of nebula scenarios by killing enemy ships and guard posts.

I'm not sure what kind of bonuses the AI should receive for the player using Champions. A flat increase in production is quite boring. Nemesis obviously bothered players because they are so dang aggressive (like Super Hybrids). Perhaps we could keep the "Nemesis" concept, but make them play more defensively. In other words they won't attack your base unless provoked. Instead they roam the galaxy looking for allied Champions to kill. I'm not sure if it's already like this, but giving the "Champion Only" player the ability to build the "minor faction" ships after each scenario could be a big increase in firepower for them, and make the game more interesting. I'm not sure how you would handle their resources. Maybe if you gave them a "Home Command Station" alongside their allies (in the allied base) it would produce enough resources to create the minor faction ships, and rebuild the Champion if it dies.

[@B0FH]

I can live with the Champions as they are now (Nebulae and all), however this really peaked my interest - it screams Borderlands in mechanics, but it sounds very at home with what my vision of the champions

[TIE Viper]

The 1970s Hitchikers Guide To The Galaxy TV Serial - That does make me wonder why there are no "B" ARCs or giant mutant star-goats already in the game

Ah, okay.  A bit before my time then.

[keith.lamothe]

The 1970s Hitchikers Guide To The Galaxy TV Serial - That does make me wonder why there are no "B" ARCs or giant mutant star-goats already in the game

Ah, okay.  A bit before my time then.

Before my time too, but time isn't much of a problem for the Infinite Improbability Drive.  Though the Campaign for Real Time may object.

[TIE Viper]

The 1970s Hitchikers Guide To The Galaxy TV Serial - That does make me wonder why there are no "B" ARCs or giant mutant star-goats already in the game

Ah, okay.  A bit before my time then.

Before my time too, but time isn't much of a problem for the Infinite Improbability Drive.  Though the Campaign for Real Time may object.

Maybe, but at least the Infinite Improbability Drive is giving it a better deal than the entity it keeps reincarnating only to then almost immediately kill off. 

[orzelek]

I chose other because the "Drox" like idea would be really nice.

It could require whole separate expansion to do it actually but would be fun

Currently I think main drawbacks for me are nebula repetitivness and inability to advance outside them.
Method to advance champion (levels and unlocks) outside nebula would make them more useful for more than 1-2 games.
It doesn't need to be overly complicated - leveling xp from guardians for example and unlocks based on level would also work.
It could be game option: either nebulae or this simpler system that would make champion level when fighting along your fleet.
Separate buildings with unlocks would also work but it would need to seed quite a lot of these.

[TechSY730]

Cross posting is so much fun (for me at least)

I'd be happy with:

• more nebula missions and mission types
• improve balance of existing nebulas
• way(s) to gain unlocks outside of nebulae, even if they were secondary in effectiveness to nebulae. Prefereable, this other way would be more "integrated" into the main goal of taking out the AI
• way(s) to gain noticable experience outside of nebulae, even if they were secondary in effectiveness to nebulae. Prefereable, this other way would be more "integrated" into the main goal of taking out the AI (someone mentioned that starships and now also guardians (and higher tiers as well) are really tough enough to put up a good fight against champs, so it seems fair that they would give some exp too. Also, can the exp gain for guard posts and command stations go up a bit?)
• some way to avoid the "tyranny of the RNG" when it comes to unlocks, especially hull and module unlocks that don't work well together (a somewhat common occurrence that can really hurt the effectiveness of the champion by no fault of your own)
• some sort of "respec" system
• more active abilities
• better balance of existing active abilities

Yes, not trivial by any means, but doesn't require "ditching" huge amounts of stuff already in the game, and wouldn't require a whole "expansions worth" of work. Also, it still keeps the current system, mostly, but just expands on it.
Something like unlock trees and a "fallen spire, but with champions" type thing would be cool too, but that seems like it would take too much more work than is reasonably worth to consider at this time.

[KDR_11k]

I voted on micro-heavy with the condition that that should only apply when it's actually in combat. I use it as my main offensive force with my fleet on defense which means there aren't any real lulls in the game where I'm refleeting.

[Tridus]

I voted other, because what I want the champion to be is a fleet leader/hero type unit. The abilities kind of let it do that, though it could use some extra ones (as unlocks or rewards).

Right now my biggest issue with champions is the nebula attention splitting, and that's far less of an issue when a nebula scenario is short. When you get caught in the big wars with a frigate (or even a destroyer), you just can't swing things very fast and the scenario goes on forever. Stuff like the dysons, devourer, or the one with the suicide pods all go a lot more quickly in a small ship and aren't nearly a problem.

The big war scenarios work better when you have a larger ship, as you can directly engage and make progress more quickly. It doesn't distract from the main game nearly so much when it's a 15 minute thing vs a 45 minute thing.

[Mick]

I voted other, because what I want the champion to be is a fleet leader/hero type unit. The abilities kind of let it do that, though it could use some extra ones (as unlocks or rewards).

Right now my biggest issue with champions is the nebula attention splitting, and that's far less of an issue when a nebula scenario is short. When you get caught in the big wars with a frigate (or even a destroyer), you just can't swing things very fast and the scenario goes on forever. Stuff like the dysons, devourer, or the one with the suicide pods all go a lot more quickly in a small ship and aren't nearly a problem.

The big war scenarios work better when you have a larger ship, as you can directly engage and make progress more quickly. It doesn't distract from the main game nearly so much when it's a 15 minute thing vs a 45 minute thing.

This is pretty much exactly what I was trying to say.