What do you the envision hunter plot as? (poll)

[chemical_art]

This is meant to gauge how players feel about the current Hunter plot, and if any changes are desired to how it is done, or if it is in a good place.

As mentioned here there is some confusion as to how exactly the current Hunter plot should operate. I do not know how players in general feel about it, so this poll is here to help specifically hash out what it is, and how to improve it.

While the poll doesn't ask to worry about balance, certainly list them here.

As pointed out in the two general trains of thoughts, I so far notice two different mind sets. H/K's are added on to current SF mechanics, and H/K's are used as part of the budget. I certainly like the latter (I have a long love adding in H/K's anywhere) but i don't like them for free. But I'm sure others feel different.

Thoughts?

[keith.lamothe]

Thanks for putting this up

To clarify, are we talking about the Hunter plot, or the Shark plot?  You mention both but it sounds like you're talking about Hunter.

[KDR_11k]

All I want is an indicator "Hunter is X hops away from current planet".

[keith.lamothe]

All I want is an indicator "Hunter is X hops away from current planet".

Following this progression?

Hunter Advisory: run

Hunter Advisory: Run

Hunter Advisory: RUN

Hunter Advisory: RUN!

Hunter Advisory: !FUN!

[chemical_art]

Thanks for putting this up

To clarify, are we talking about the Hunter plot, or the Shark plot?  You mention both but it sounds like you're talking about Hunter.

Certainly the hunter.

It's my first poll of any depth I've done. I am remarkably sharp right now. Both negatively in attitude (serious pain) but also in being relatively coherent (Even I am shocked).

[keith.lamothe]

Certainly the hunter.

I hesitate to mention it, but there's one more mention of Shark in the first line of the OP.

Both negatively in attitude (serious pain)

Ouch, very sorry to hear that.  Please don't let this interfere with rest or anything else you could be doing to treat that.

[chemical_art]

Added a new choice, intensity determines how "exotic" the hunter units are, from more choice of regular fleetships to downright dastardly things like golems.

Keep in mind balance is up to debate for all this, and there can be exceptions for the general concept.

So for example on the above idea, which I just added, *most* things are determined by the intensity, and more exotic / stronger things are unlocked with higher intensity. But due to the namesake, the H/K, despite its strength maybe needing a higher intensity, slips in on 4/10 or even less.

[chemical_art]

I hesitate to mention it, but there's one more mention of Shark in the first line of the OP.

Ouch, very sorry to hear that.  Please don't let this interfere with rest or anything else you could be doing to treat that.

Got it.

Appreciate it. I don't really need rest, I need distractions for today. Next week though...I'll need lots of rest distractions

[Kahuna]

I like these ideas. I voted for

aintains #1, the idea of a timer soley adding to special forces, but the timer is influenced by AIP and/or difficulty in addition to plot intensity.

because it makes sense and sounds simple.

By "uncommon units" I assume you mean H/Ks and Experimental and Core Starships. Am I right? Or Golems and Spirecraft too?

Special forces are able to use their "budgets" to unlock a greater variety of uncommon units, including Hunter Killers. Higher plot intensity determines portion of the SF "budget" goes to these units. (Passively influenced by SF logic)

So instead of 3000k ships there could be something like.. 1000 ships and 2 H/Ks. On higher intensity there could be 2 H/Ks and a few dozen Experimental and/or Core Starships. Hmm sounds interesting but I wonder if this would create a problem similar to the Spire Stealth Battleship problem I had a some time ago (100 Fighters and 100 SSBs..).

I liked this one too.

#3, except the plot intensity determines how "efficent" the conversion from normal to uncommon units the special forces budget uses. A  really low intensity means inefficent conversion, high intensity means greater conversion and improved SF str

This would be awesome but would probably take more work. This might have the "SSB problem" only on higher intensity levels.. but I'm not sure that could be called a "problem" anymore.. if you set the intensity above 4 you asked for it.,

Hunter Advisory: !FUN!

lol'd

[keith.lamothe]

Or Golems and Spirecraft too?

SF Black Widow Golems under SF Spirecraft Shield Bearers.

What could go wrong?

[ZaneWolfe]

I like #3 best. The higher the plot setting the more and more of the SF budget goes into things like guardians, H/K, Spirecraft and/or golems. Yes I know the idea of Special Forces Golems or Spirecraft worries some people, but this IS an AI Plot. It is not a "This is on every single game" You're choosing to turn it on.

Personally, I would rather face off against an H/K in the SF than say a couple hundred of things like Spire Blade Spawners (no matter how much I love using them, they are a pain in AI hands) and/or Z-Bombards (OH GODDESS THE ALPHA). (I rarely have issues with Tackle Drones, probably because I use starships for my main force.)

Now I will say this much, it should NOT even be allowed to get certain things. (Like those Shield Bearers or an Arty Golem... actually nothing besides those stands out as a DO NOT LET THEM HAVE) but I would like to see it get more variety than simply getting  H/Ks. I would laugh (and likely cry/scream later) at seeing it get Perpetrators or Attritioners.

[chemical_art]

By "uncommon units" I assume you mean H/Ks and Experimental and Core Starships. Am I right? Or Golems and Spirecraft too?

It could go either way, depending on what is desired. As part of my last option, perhaps part of what is available is based on intensity, a little like trains. I certainly wouldn't expect to see golems or spirecraft before 6 or 7.

So instead of 3000k ships there could be something like.. 1000 ships and 2 H/Ks. On higher intensity there could be 2 H/Ks and a few dozen Experimental and/or Core Starships. Hmm sounds interesting but I wonder if this would create a problem similar to the Spire Stealth Battleship problem I had a some time ago (100 Fighters and 100 SSBs..).

That true, but with the current mechanics, I wonder if that already happens. Is there a cap for the number of H/K's, etc that spawn? Depending on what the cap is, it already in theory happens if the SF's aren't mauled enough.

That said, the H/K, while a fearsome ship, in exo-s costs a fearsome amount of units. Greater then golems.  I would imagine for speed the budgets for SF would be somewhat similar (if not very similar) to the exo wave costs.
The H/K is meant to combat fleets, not units. When on defense, combating ships, it is dangerous but a lot less fearsome. Part of why I asked for a foil to the H/K...

This would be awesome but would probably take more work. This might have the "SSB problem" only on higher intensity levels.. but I'm not sure that could be called a "problem" anymore.. if you set the intensity above 4 you asked for it.,

Part of why I like that idea is because it also influences SF strength as a whole. Set it to 1 and have weaker SF. Set it to 10...and experience a very elastic defense. Get a special forces captain 10/10 with Hunter 10/10? You might find there the SF's don't exist for 10 hours...and then it finally makes a mothership.

[keith.lamothe]

Is there a cap for the number of H/K's, etc that spawn?

Hunter will only spawn one H/K of each mark at any time.  And doesn't spawn a mkI if intensity is below 4, and doesn't spawn a mkII if intensity is below... I forget, 5 or 6.  And so on.

and then it finally makes a mothership.

Either the mothership would follow its innate "beeline the human home command station" logic (despite being SF and not showing in the threat count) or it would be a roaming CSG, neither of which strikes me as a positive development

[chemical_art]

and then it finally makes a mothership.

Either the mothership would follow its innate "beeline the human home command station" logic (despite being SF and not showing in the threat count) or it would be a roaming CSG, neither of which strikes me as a positive development

Well, the theory being an AI that specializes in SF, on 10/10, with a plot for SF on 10/10, and doesn't get to use its bonus until 10 hours in? I was expecting a bit of give on "positive development" 

[Histidine]

Voted for #3 with intensity as exoticness.

#3 with intensity as efficiency sounds like I could just run it on 1/10 to make the AI make inefficient trades like 2 caps of triangle ships for 1 guardian.