Author Topic: What do you the envision hunter plot as? (poll) (Read 7434 times)

Fluffiest · « **Reply #15 on:** June 11, 2013, 04:59:04 am »

Personally, I like the idea that the exotic SF stuff doesn't show up until you start killing SF ships. The AI doesn't need to deploy Spirecraft, Golems, and HKs into the special forces if you're already running from them rather than fighting.

chemical_art · « **Reply #16 on:** June 12, 2013, 05:40:42 pm »

Hmmm, so it seems that while it is a fairly even split on how to do the budget, the idea of using it as a whole is very possible.

LordSloth · « **Reply #17 on:** June 12, 2013, 10:56:18 pm »

I don't particularly want the hunter plot pulling from the spec forces budget. -at the moment- i'm fine with separate pricing.

On the other hand, you could do something interesting by splitting the hunters into a second 'patrol' fleet that is only a minute or a a half behind the regular patrol. ... or institute that "Hunters inbound" warning if you've got scouts picketed. Either would generate that feeling of impending doom.

Thematically I enjoy that, as well as the idea of the hunter special units spawning from factories.

But that's not what I've really came here to say.

Hunter 10 needs to spawn an avenger, complete with nuke on death. That is all.

keith.lamothe · « **Reply #18 on:** June 13, 2013, 10:14:01 am »

Quote from: LordSloth on June 12, 2013, 10:56:18 pm

Hunter 10 needs to spawn an avenger, complete with nuke on death. That is all.

And people think my plots are nasty. I've got nothing on that.

keith.lamothe · « **Reply #19 on:** June 13, 2013, 03:18:55 pm »

Ok, been thinking about this and while I agree with the identified approach (making hunter into a budget-based thing rather than a set of "if fewer than X of unit type Y in SF, spawn 1 of them every N minutes" rules, which it is now) I don't think the current implementation is in such a state as to _need_ this for 7.0 (on 1 it's relatively mild, on 4 it hurts very bad, on 10 it's insane), and honestly 7.0 is very close (next week) so I'd like to hold off until after 7.0 for this. At the very least, there isn't time to test whether a new approach was at least reasonably balanced, where the current one (while painful and annoying to some) is balanced well enough for its original intent and target audience.

To clarify on the leading proposal itself: the idea is that it doesn't increase the SF strength cap (i.e. budget) at all? Just adds to the list of choices that can be made on how to allocate that strength?

TechSY730 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 13, 2013, 03:26:57 pm »

Maybe a "minor-ish" bonus to "budget" if it decides to go for units it would normally be unable to get that "round", provided it is able to spawn at least one of those units that round. Higher intensities would ice more bonus, but even at 10 it wouldn't be enough to "overtake" what it would normally get.

The AI may need to be taught how to "save up" for the bigger stuff, though I guess the debt system sort of takes care of that. Just make sure it isn't allowed to the the nastiest stuff for the first couple spawns.

keith.lamothe · « **Reply #21 on:** June 13, 2013, 03:27:46 pm »

Quote from: TechSY730 on June 13, 2013, 03:26:57 pm

The AI may need to be taught how to "save up" for the bigger stuff, though I guess the debt system sort of takes care of that. Just make sure it isn't allowed to the the nastiest stuff for the first couple spawns.

Nope! H/K at 5 minutes, all the way!

TechSY730 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 13, 2013, 03:33:02 pm »

Quote from: keith.lamothe on June 13, 2013, 03:27:46 pm

Quote from: TechSY730 on June 13, 2013, 03:26:57 pm
The AI may need to be taught how to "save up" for the bigger stuff, though I guess the debt system sort of takes care of that. Just make sure it isn't allowed to the the nastiest stuff for the first couple spawns.
Nope! H/K at 5 minutes, all the way!

Sure, you manage to survive that, you wouldn't have to worry about any special forces from that AI for quite some time. But that is a BIG if.

How about the scaling for the "bonus points"? How about no more than 5% for intensity 1, no more than 40% for intensity 10, and it would only get this bonus on a round if it will use it towards a unit not normally allowed in special forces AND it will be able to spawn at least one of them that round (basically, if it isn't so in debt that it couldn't afford even 1 instance of 1 "exotic" ship type)

Not sure what ratio intensity 4 should get. 20%?

chemical_art · « **Reply #23 on:** June 13, 2013, 04:53:46 pm »

Quote from: keith.lamothe on June 13, 2013, 03:18:55 pm

To clarify on the leading proposal itself: the idea is that it doesn't increase the SF strength cap (i.e. budget) at all? Just adds to the list of choices that can be made on how to allocate that strength?

I tried to make the concept of a budget the same among the three most popular options, but how the "intensity" of the number slider influencing it in different ways. Whether it be the "proportion" being exotic, to the "efficiency" of the exotic, to the "maximum variety" being exotic.

The leading one is the list of choices being exotic. I imagined the really low ones just enabling the SF fleet to have extra choices in fleet ships that it otherwise wouldn't be able to use. Around 6 would unlock spire craft, and 8 would unlock golems, and 10 would unlock something_really_special. H/K's would be at strength 4, unusually low relative to the other units, but given extra love due to its origins and due to the plot being of its name sake.

The decision to wait till post 7.0 to the budget is perfectly understandable. That said, I think if more time is given to let this hatch out, elements of the other leading ideas, of efficiency increasing and the total "budget" going to the exotic units could be incorporated to a mild extent. A bit like how the current train plots have both nastier and more trains as intensity increases.

LaughingThesaurus · « **Reply #24 on:** June 13, 2013, 05:25:45 pm »

At 10 it summons special forces GSCs.

(this is not a serious idea)

TechSY730 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 13, 2013, 05:27:27 pm »

Quote from: LaughingThesaurus on June 13, 2013, 05:25:45 pm

At 10 it summons special forces GSCs.

(this is not a serious idea)

GSCs escorted by Motherships and Mk. V H/Ks escorted by golems, avengers, and lower mark H/Ks escorted by spirecraft and starships escorted by high mark fleet ships...

*crawls into a corner and crawls into a ball, crying silently*

Tridus · « **Reply #26 on:** June 13, 2013, 05:28:48 pm »

You forgot the dire guardians!

LaughingThesaurus · « **Reply #27 on:** June 13, 2013, 05:40:01 pm »

The nuke-on-death effect doesn't actually increase AIP does it? You could totally abuse special forces avengers if you could kill them. ...then again, they could totally abuse YOU.

keith.lamothe · « **Reply #28 on:** June 13, 2013, 06:33:53 pm »

Quote from: LaughingThesaurus on June 13, 2013, 05:40:01 pm

The nuke-on-death effect doesn't actually increase AIP does it? You could totally abuse special forces avengers if you could kill them. ...then again, they could totally abuse YOU.

Yea, I think that would be a mutually abusive relationship.

LaughingThesaurus · « **Reply #29 on:** June 13, 2013, 07:11:17 pm »

I was thinking of strategies, but then I started thinking too hard.
"What if I convince my enemy to nuke his OWN planets with the nukes that he shoots at MY planets?"

News:

Poll

How do you want the hunter plot to act within AI War? Keep in mind these are concepts and balance for any idea can be worked out later