What are people's opinions on lategame champion only players?

[Lancefighter]

I feel like the lategame champion only player takes an incredibly backseat. After spending a good 3-4 hours ignoring his normal friends, he finds himself with basically nothing to do (outside of typical stuff).

Theres just some minor issues - What if you didn't unlock your favorite module? Or maybe didn't get enough xp to get your fancy fully mk5 ship? I mean there is some amount of planning involved.. But then if you encounter an early ravenous shadow (like I did in this game..) you need to have missiles, meaning you cant really afford to wait until you get plasma cannons early on. from what I've seen, heat beams arent nearly enough damage to single targets.

Additionally, a question on modulebalance - Why allow hbc only on human ships, and plasma guns only on spire ships? I feel like both of these should be shared, given their imperial spire counterparts. (and that plasma siege technology is freely available to human ships..)

edit; I had some silly idea that the AI would somehow figure out how to get into the nebulas with some sort of golem-ish ship - Basically a large, slow moving .. thing.. that youre supposed to destroy before it kills your friendly stations. possibly with its own fleet of some description. 'winning' this event/wave would result in some amount of xp. Losing the event would mean your normal players lose their production things. And a giant evil death machine will slowly crawl in their direction.

[keith.lamothe]

I feel like the lategame champion only player takes an incredibly backseat. After spending a good 3-4 hours ignoring his normal friends, he finds himself with basically nothing to do (outside of typical stuff).

By that you mean you basically ran off doing all the nebulae before coming back to help?  Yea, that probably isn't a recipe for consistent activity.  Help them   And then nebula, and then help them, etc.

Once you are fully done with the nebulae, though, if your allies are allowing team control you can still help them with anything they're trying to do, same as if you were playing the Helper role.  If they haven't scouted everything yet I imagine a champion with a cap or two of scouts to ride in its wake could take care of that pretty quick (other than deepstrike threat), and the champ itself could probably take care of the released threat.

Theres just some minor issues - What if you didn't unlock your favorite module? Or maybe didn't get enough xp to get your fancy fully mk5 ship? I mean there is some amount of planning involved.. But then if you encounter an early ravenous shadow (like I did in this game..) you need to have missiles, meaning you cant really afford to wait until you get plasma cannons early on. from what I've seen, heat beams arent nearly enough damage to single targets.

Yea, heat-beams are for firing into enemy groups, and not single target dps (the plasma cannon's aoe component is only 1/16th the damage to each secondary target, fyi).

On having to go early-missiles and not winding up with enough for your favorite modules later: what level were you after all the scenarios, and what were your module unlocks?

Additionally, a question on modulebalance - Why allow hbc only on human ships, and plasma guns only on spire ships? I feel like both of these should be shared, given their imperial spire counterparts. (and that plasma siege technology is freely available to human ships..)

Lore-wise it's not a question of what tech the different races have (or all of the champions could mount flak and HBC because you have them) but what the different racial tech-bases are inherently compatible with.  The crossovers you see elsewhere are due to deliberate re-engineering based on the tech from other races.

Balance-wise things like the heat beam, IIc, Photon Lance, HBC, etc need to be unique; partly for the numbers, partly for there being a reason for players to want each of the hull types beyond the different slot counts and main guns.

edit; I had some silly idea that the AI would somehow figure out how to get into the nebulas with some sort of golem-ish ship - Basically a large, slow moving .. thing.. that youre supposed to destroy before it kills your friendly stations. possibly with its own fleet of some description. 'winning' this event/wave would result in some amount of xp. Losing the event would mean your normal players lose their production things. And a giant evil death machine will slowly crawl in their direction.

Something like that sounds fun but there are a few design issues:

- Does that mean the champion player(s) may at any unannounced point in the game have to choose between "drop whatever I'm doing to go deal with this" or "lose the stuff in that nebula and let the death machine escape"?

- There's no mechanism for the nebula allies to rebuild/refortify their defenses after a nebula is won, and I can just hear the complaints now about how the silly ally AI just leaves its bases there for easy pickings, etc   Not that I can't put in some kind of conditional repair logic or whatever, or even respawning bases, but is it worth it?

[chemical_art]

Late game champions have plenty to do.

They take care of the vital task of clearing out threat. As a battleship they can make a decisive difference in repelling attacks.

If your team hasn't yet popped all the aip reducing structures, they do that with ease.

In my games with champ only players, end game doesn't happen until after the battleship is acquired because that is when they are done being gone for an hour at a time  . After that you can actually get some reliable help.

If you have nothing better to do, and don't mind annoying your ally with extra threat, start doing runs against ai hws. In my current 9/9 game at 90ish aip I make noticable progress with solo runs toward taking out guard posts despite the fit the ai gives during the process.

[Lancefighter]

And I mean its not that I plain didn't help at all - we showed up for wave defense and neutered a lot of planets early on. It was more that the primary goal of the early game was the nebula things. (and the normal player had it easy, it was only on 7.3..)

I've found myself over three games to end at just under level 40. (one solo, one twochampion, one threechampion)

I had missile/needler/laser/mrls/insantiy mk3, shield/nanosubverter/plasma mk4, and spire lance mk5. Sure, I probably didn't need both spire lances and plasma things, or the nanosubvertors at all, but they were pretty fun to play around with. I think itd probably be most accurate to say that the spire ship is almost completely useless outside of nebulas - Sure, it has unprecedented singletarget damage (against heavy/structural/ultraheavy/somethingelse), but the ai generally doesnt seem to have the units the plasma guns can shoot at. Comparatively, in nebulas, the plasma guns are incredible at blowing up everything, and for me are the best module.
Ideally, my first nebula would drop me spire frigates and plasma guns. And I would be super happy.

What about something silly like paying unlock points to jurryrig modules onto a different ship? This *might* be a bad idea (give a human shadow battleship with two dozen insanity guns..), but I really mostly just want the spire ships to have more utility than 'fit plasma guns. smash.' Maybe instead we could extend the ability pool? Thats something a few of the people I've been playing with have discussed... I dunno. I just feel like there is more that could be done here.
then again, youre likely also busy with the other two games youre working on..

I would actually say that it would have to be something that is not both immediately restrictive, (ie, a normal wave), nor ignoreable for a very long time. I think something along the lines of the miner golem - It shows up, and you have to respond to it within x time (i would probably say within a half hour or so). At the end of the time, it actually starts moving or something, goes into its final form and can blow stuff up, if you dont stop it. This is at best partially thought out, something I came up with at 2am, and likely could use a lot of work.
As for the rebuilding of nebula things - I am not sure its *required*? I believe if you wanted you could set up the nebula bases to work similarly to spire cities's ability to rebuild stuff, but overall, I think just giving them a 1-2 hour regen time would be plenty. I believe most of the dealing with this would be a largely slow/immobile ai building, that wouldnt threaten the bases immediately, but still require some sort of player response.

@chemart - Yes. Champions do clear out threat very well. I just felt like there was nothing I *needed* to do. If my normal player wanted to make a big push, he could do it easily on his own, partly because of the much neutering we did in the early game.

We did indeed clear all the aip reducers easily. Took like 5 minutes.

Yes, we are at battleship right now. And last time I entered a homeworld, the ai spawned an armored golem to deal with me (among other junk). I probably *could* do stuff there, but I am not sure, given the deepstrike threat, and raid engin..eyes I pass through, that its really a good idea. Its a lot of threat generated, an it all adds up..

If I actually had useful modules, instead of spire lances and plasma things, maybe it wouldnt be as big a deal to clear out all the threat... I would love some extra xp to do that. (is level 39 not what is expected in a normal champion game?)

[keith.lamothe]

Lvl 39 is right on target, actually.  Hmm, will think about this stuff.

[chemical_art]

And I mean its not that I plain didn't help at all - we showed up for wave defense and neutered a lot of planets early on. It was more that the primary goal of the early game was the nebula things. (and the normal player had it easy, it was only on 7.3..)

I've found myself over three games to end at just under level 40. (one solo, one twochampion, one threechampion)

I had missile/needler/laser/mrls/insantiy mk3, shield/nanosubverter/plasma mk4, and spire lance mk5. Sure, I probably didn't need both spire lances and plasma things, or the nanosubvertors at all, but they were pretty fun to play around with. I think itd probably be most accurate to say that the spire ship is almost completely useless outside of nebulas - Sure, it has unprecedented singletarget damage (against heavy/structural/ultraheavy/somethingelse), but the ai generally doesnt seem to have the units the plasma guns can shoot at. Comparatively, in nebulas, the plasma guns are incredible at blowing up everything, and for me are the best module.

For my games I tend to not build anything get any module beyond II until I have an idea of what I want my final module line to be. In my game I just finished it was lasers, mlrs, needlers, bomber bays (yay buff!) and shields. This let me use all the battleships pretty well. If for example I chose to go more specialized, I'd have to probably sacrfice the mlrs and or needler to compensate. Every class and loadout has its strengths and not strengths, and that needs to be so, otherwise all the modules will feel the same.

On the other hand, is it OK to that as an average player I still have to plan from the very beginning on what my module line is? I DO feel railroaded in, for I don't know when or even IF I'll get my desired module. In my last game I didn't get plasma sieges or lances or hbcs or doom modules. If I had built my long term goal around them I would be in trouble. (and with the tight budgets if you want an all V battleship for anything but a super player you DO need to plan from the beginning) 

Ideally, my first nebula would drop me spire frigates and plasma guns. And I would be super happy.

The problem is that everyone has different wants. Given the success of my last game abusing bomber bay nenzul craft, I'd want nenzul and bombers first.

What about something silly like paying unlock points to jurryrig modules onto a different ship? This *might* be a bad idea (give a human shadow battleship with two dozen insanity guns..), but I really mostly just want the spire ships to have more utility than 'fit plasma guns. smash.' Maybe instead we could extend the ability pool? Thats something a few of the people I've been playing with have discussed... I dunno. I just feel like there is more that could be done here.

That's part of making ships unique. Part of what makes the nenzul ship balanced for having less modules is that it has some of the more radical modules. The human shadow gets lots of little modules but are not so radical, and the spire battleshield is by far the best built to be a sledgehammer to big things but not so well to little things. If every ship can be made to do everything, then they all start to feel the same.


I would actually say that it would have to be something that is not both immediately restrictive, (ie, a normal wave), nor ignoreable for a very long time. I think something along the lines of the miner golem - It shows up, and you have to respond to it within x time (i would probably say within a half hour or so). At the end of the time, it actually starts moving or something, goes into its final form and can blow stuff up, if you dont stop it. This is at best partially thought out, something I came up with at 2am, and likely could use a lot of work.

Keep in mind it is possible to have player + champion games. That sounds really micro heavy...and feels right now as nothing more then a distraction. I like the current nebula situation because you choose when you start the heavy micro situation, rather then your setup where the ai slams me with heavy micro things. It's not the best idea to try to mimic miners since an informal poll shows them the least popular minor faction.

As for the rebuilding of nebula things - I am not sure its *required*? I believe if you wanted you could set up the nebula bases to work similarly to spire cities's ability to rebuild stuff, but overall, I think just giving them a 1-2 hour regen time would be plenty. I believe most of the dealing with this would be a largely slow/immobile ai building, that wouldnt threaten the bases immediately, but still require some sort of player response.

Sounds like more micro honestly. A champion only player is required to use the champ to control units within the nebula, but normal player 1 would have to be responsible for building with the current resource mechanics. Sounds like a recipe for headaches.

@chemart - Yes. Champions do clear out threat very well. I just felt like there was nothing I *needed* to do. If my normal player wanted to make a big push, he could do it easily on his own, partly because of the much neutering we did in the early game.

Part of why he could do the big push is he reaping the treasures you sowed. You have given him a massive number of K free units and huge supply of resources and energy. If you feel really bored ask him to allow team control and you yourself control the allied nebula units along side your battleship. That will give you dominance for at least 95% of the galaxy aside from the HW and being the forlorn hope of defense.

We did indeed clear all the aip reducers easily. Took like 5 minutes.

Yes, we are at battleship right now. And last time I entered a homeworld, the ai spawned an armored golem to deal with me (among other junk). I probably *could* do stuff there, but I am not sure, given the deepstrike threat, and raid engin..eyes I pass through, that its really a good idea. Its a lot of threat generated, an it all adds up..

The only thing the ai directly spawns as a result of the champion is the nemesis. Armored golems I'm going to guess are the result of the planatary reserve which is tied to aip, so your champ is not to blame for that response but rather the aip itself is (which your champ doesn't cause as it gets stronger). You say you are running up against eyes? Pop all the guardposts on the eye world there, and you shall remove it. The fact you are dealing with them on the path to an ai hw still shows you have plenty to do.

If I actually had useful modules, instead of spire lances and plasma things, maybe it wouldnt be as big a deal to clear out all the threat... I would love some extra xp to do that. (is level 39 not what is expected in a normal champion game?)

Spire lances and plasmas KO most guard posts very quickly with or without shields. However, did you think that in return for a very specialized modules that it would suffer against non bonused craft? It is starting to sound like you picked module lines that don't fit the play style you desire.

[Lancefighter]

For my games I tend to not build anything get any module beyond II until I have an idea of what I want my final module line to be. In my game I just finished it was lasers, mlrs, needlers, bomber bays (yay buff!) and shields. This let me use all the battleships pretty well. If for example I chose to go more specialized, I'd have to probably sacrfice the mlrs and or needler to compensate. Every class and loadout has its strengths and not strengths, and that needs to be so, otherwise all the modules will feel the same.

I actually have been meaning to try out the new bomber bays (but preferred sticking with the known plasma guns for their ease and dominance of nebulas). How good are they now? Can they compete with plasmas against bonused targets?

On the other hand, is it OK to that as an average player I still have to plan from the very beginning on what my module line is? I DO feel railroaded in, for I don't know when or even IF I'll get my desired module. In my last game I didn't get plasma sieges or lances or hbcs or doom modules. If I had built my long term goal around them I would be in trouble. (and with the tight budgets if you want an all V battleship for anything but a super player you DO need to plan from the beginning)  [/color]

The problem is that everyone has different wants. Given the success of my last game abusing bomber bay nenzul craft, I'd want nenzul and bombers first.

Odd that you bring up railroaded - I think I had wanted to use that term, but felt like it was slightly too harsh for what I was trying to convey. I picked up the plasmas at the third or 4th? mission I think, but it was after the ravenous shadow mission.

That's part of making ships unique. Part of what makes the nenzul ship balanced for having less modules is that it has some of the more radical modules. The human shadow gets lots of little modules but are not so radical, and the spire battleshield is by far the best built to be a sledgehammer to big things but not so well to little things. If every ship can be made to do everything, then they all start to feel the same.

Id kinda agree. I think maybe if I had the ability to swap to optimal ships in the cases where I needed them (ie, if I could fit at least a second ship with more than mk3 stuff), I dont think I would be so worried. But at the moment, I just cant afford to have anywhere near optimal ship designs, past one. And that one, for me, will always be a plasma equipped spireship, if I get it anywhere near early.

Keep in mind it is possible to have player + champion games. That sounds really micro heavy...and feels right now as nothing more then a distraction. I like the current nebula situation because you choose when you start the heavy micro situation, rather then your setup where the ai slams me with heavy micro things. It's not the best idea to try to mimic miners since an informal poll shows them the least popular minor faction.

Sounds like more micro honestly. A champion only player is required to use the champ to control units within the nebula, but normal player 1 would have to be responsible for building with the current resource mechanics. Sounds like a recipe for headaches.

Micro heavy? I mean.. thats the POINT of being a champion. To micro it. I cant really accept that argument.. The idea is to give the players enough time to react to them, so if they are ni the middle of microing something else, they wouldnt need to do them immediately. Its to give the champions something to do in a lull in the lategame, and possibly gain extra xp/modules.

Part of why he could do the big push is he reaping the treasures you sowed. You have given him a massive number of K free units and huge supply of resources and energy. If you feel really bored ask him to allow team control and you yourself control the allied nebula units along side your battleship. That will give you dominance for at least 95% of the galaxy aside from the HW and being the forlorn hope of defense.

Well; yes. I dont really feel the answer should be "share control and play with his units" though.

The only thing the ai directly spawns as a result of the champion is the nemesis. Armored golems I'm going to guess are the result of the planatary reserve which is tied to aip, so your champ is not to blame for that response but rather the aip itself is (which your champ doesn't cause as it gets stronger). You say you are running up against eyes? Pop all the guardposts on the eye world there, and you shall remove it. The fact you are dealing with them on the path to an ai hw still shows you have plenty to do.

Spire lances and plasmas KO most guard posts very quickly with or without shields. However, did you think that in return for a very specialized modules that it would suffer against non bonused craft? It is starting to sound like you picked module lines that don't fit the play style you desire.

I dont want to have extended operations in the middle of deepstrike land against mk5 ships. Thats not exactly my idea of a 'good' operation..
Particularly, as I mentioned, because I only have spire weapons, and those arent effective against the thousands of ships that will try to kill me.

Part of my issue can probably come back to it being my fault for unlocking so many useless modules. But I feel like there is a better answer than "well, you unlocked only plasma guns, so youre useless. Might as well afk now"

[chemical_art]

I actually have been meaning to try out the new bomber bays (but preferred sticking with the known plasma guns for their ease and dominance of nebulas). How good are they now? Can they compete with plasmas against bonused targets?

No, but plasmas are meant to be the very best against their particular target in terms of dps. However, as you have discovered, they are terrible against non bonused things.

Bombers are no where near as extreme. They still do great damage against their targets, but they also acts in mini decoys and are not as bad against non bonused craft.

Odd that you bring up railroaded - I think I had wanted to use that term, but felt like it was slightly too harsh for what I was trying to convey. I picked up the plasmas at the third or 4th? mission I think, but it was after the ravenous shadow mission.

I didn't get any unique spire modules in my game. I do use the term railroaded. So often it is said now to get upgraded modules before you start the first mission because the rewards are based on time. So railroading starts soon. If after the first mission you get a module that is weak against nebulae (translocator, etc) you are tempted to pass on it for now because of the "gotta do great against nebula" pressure. The combination of having all the core nebula tools for about 80% of nebula targets (needler, mlrs, lasers) and combined with the pressure to be at max so early on makes a tremendous amount of pressure that really hinders some potential combinations (for example I'm curious who manages to get MK V paralysizers or V translocators without a LOT of planning)

Id kinda agree. I think maybe if I had the ability to swap to optimal ships in the cases where I needed them (ie, if I could fit at least a second ship with more than mk3 stuff), I dont think I would be so worried. But at the moment, I just cant afford to have anywhere near optimal ship designs, past one. And that one, for me, will always be a plasma equipped spireship, if I get it anywhere near early.

But you have said yourself plenty of times that the plasma equipped spireship is terrible against moving targets. If you pursue a ship that devastates mobile units with one module class that is good against starbases then you do fine in nebula because your allies will help crush the starbases effectively. You have picked the most optimial starbase killer, which is certainly one way to do nebulas, but not the only one.

[/quote]

Micro heavy? I mean.. thats the POINT of being a champion. To micro it. I cant really accept that argument.. The idea is to give the players enough time to react to them, so if they are ni the middle of microing something else, they wouldnt need to do them immediately. Its to give the champions something to do in a lull in the lategame, and possibly gain extra xp/modules.

Going to have to agree to disagree here. Nebulas are meant to be fun and unique, and as a side effect are micro heavy. The micro heavy ness is not the goal. Throwing random obstacles with no benefit aside from losing your goodies is just as bad as miners, and given that they are not popular I don't see how this is an improvement. You have plenty of things to do, but the scripted missions can only go so far. If these random events give XP, then they WILL get farmed, so eventually every champion gets access to V everything, which makes games samey.

Well; yes. I dont really feel the answer should be "share control and play with his units" though.

Having the most powerful respawning unit is not enough? It is clear that the modules you focused on are used by only one champion line. You have put all your eggs to very effectively tackle a niche basket. So you are the best at wiping the floor of large units...and you murder stationary things...but suffer against small units. I don't see the problem.

I dont want to have extended operations in the middle of deepstrike land against mk5 ships. Thats not exactly my idea of a 'good' operation..
Particularly, as I mentioned, because I only have spire weapons, and those arent effective against the thousands of ships that will try to kill me.

Then communicate with your partner and work together. I'm sure he would appreciate your ability to slaughter large things in his operations. I'm curious what your AIP is if you are agitating thousands of ships. Your lances will hit plenty of targets in large battles, and the aoe of the plasma sieges will help.

Part of my issue can probably come back to it being my fault for unlocking so many useless modules. But I feel like there is a better answer than "well, you unlocked only plasma guns, so youre useless. Might as well afk now"

Are they useless, or are they not? You say you have to use them in nebulas, but then call them useless. They aren't useless. You chose to specialize rather then be a jack of all trades. Ultimately, if you have more then a low aip, your champion isn't going to do it all no matter what, and as aip increases your relative power diminishes. That is fact.  So communicate with your partner and help. There is a reason the ai response increases by 20% compared to the main player, because you are not meant to be as powerful. If you want to dominate games at all stages, be a normal + champ in your multiplayer games.

[Lancefighter]

Mostly going to skim through responding, as nothing really seemed particularly new or requiring great counterargument.

At the moment, aip is 350ish.

Spire lances honestly feel really underpowered on the champion. If I want to kill something large/stationary, I use plasmas. If I dont, then spire lances arent going to hit enough to make them particularly viable.. As most ships youd want to use the lances against, the plasma guns have bonuses to. Sure, they *can* be good in large fights.. But honestly, I feel like their average case is not good enough, in fleet operations. Then again, that might still be by design.

Well - Yes. The point is that if the game goes on long enough, the champion player with both ave some sort of diversion, and will get extra xp. I dont think that it will be anywhere near enough to get every mk5 module, but it will help towards filling out that second ship/role you are looking for.

It should be mentioned that champion plasma guns barely can hit anything the AI has. They simply cant shoot at anything.

For the moment, this was my first and only champ only game. I am just not sure I will want to do it again, instead sticking to normal or norm/champ.

[Toranth]

Mostly going to skim through responding, as nothing really seemed particularly new or requiring great counterargument.

At the moment, aip is 350ish.

Spire lances honestly feel really underpowered on the champion. If I want to kill something large/stationary, I use plasmas. If I dont, then spire lances arent going to hit enough to make them particularly viable.. As most ships youd want to use the lances against, the plasma guns have bonuses to. Sure, they *can* be good in large fights.. But honestly, I feel like their average case is not good enough, in fleet operations. Then again, that might still be by design.

Well - Yes. The point is that if the game goes on long enough, the champion player with both ave some sort of diversion, and will get extra xp. I dont think that it will be anywhere near enough to get every mk5 module, but it will help towards filling out that second ship/role you are looking for.

It should be mentioned that champion plasma guns barely can hit anything the AI has. They simply cant shoot at anything.

For the moment, this was my first and only champ only game. I am just not sure I will want to do it again, instead sticking to normal or norm/champ.

In regards to weapon modules...
The Mk I Photon Lance does about 75,000 DPS (including firing+reload time). 
The Mk I Plasma Siege module does 10,000 DPS - 100,000 DPS with multipliers.
The Mk I Needler module does 7200 DPS - 36,000 DPS with multipliers.

So, as you can see, the Plasma Siege module really sucks against things it doesn't have a multiplier against.  The Photon Lance still does 75,000 DPS against those fleetships, though.
It's choosing to specialize at killing Ultra-Heavys vs doing merely good damage against more things.


Now, as to your other issue re: experience and Champion Activites.  I agree that there should be something else to gain experience, with the nebulas giving a fixed amount of XP on win.  Things like 'victory speed' and 'surviving allies' or such could be rewarded some other way (more/better foldouts, K/resources, etc).  That would make it easier to balance the nebula vs xp issues that occasionally crop up now.
As for activities specific to the Champion?  I don't play multiplayer, so I'm always using my Champions.  Either in the Nebula, or in the fleet.  For a Champion only player, however, I can see how the endgame may get a little boring.  All the nebula are done, but the fleet player isn't ready to assault the homeowlrds yet?  Well, I guess you could twiddle around the galaxy, destroying guardposts or something...


Maybe solve both these problems at once:  Create an Arena Nebula!  Unlocked after all other nebula are done, the wormhole to it magically appears on the human homeworld.  Going in there causes a spawn of enemies to occur, and the Champion can kill them for XP.  Leave (or be destroyed) and the enemeis disappear until the next time you enter.
Maybe call that nebula Farmbula?  NebeXP? 

[Lancefighter]

And dont get me wrong, I feel like assuming the enemy is both stationary, and can take the full brunt of the spire beam, the spire lances are really good.

But I am proposing that there is generally no case where that happens, where the plasma guns would not be more effective. (well, certain items like wormhole posts or eyes are command grade)

The plasma thing also /absolutely CAN NOT/ shoot fleethships.

I really want to avoid the trope of an arena of some sort - It doesnt really make sense at all. It like.. literally doesnt make sense at all.

[Toranth]

The plasma thing also /absolutely CAN NOT/ shoot fleethships.

Hmm, just checked, and you are correct.  I think the modules are supposed to be like the Plasma Siege Starship, capable of hitting fleetships.  If not a bug, then I would suggest this as something to be changed.

I really want to avoid the trope of an arena of some sort - It doesnt really make sense at all. It like.. literally doesnt make sense at all.

Oh, there was a pretty large amount of non-seriousness in that suggestion.  Lorewise, it'd be hard to justify.  Gameplay-wise, I think it'd be pretty boring.  But the current XP rewards scale for killing Guardposts and Command Stations is only enough to get a few early levels, all the rest MUST come from the nebula.  Even nebula enemy ships don't give any significant reward anymore.

[keith.lamothe]

In regards to weapon modules...
The Mk I Photon Lance does about 75,000 DPS (including firing+reload time). 
The Mk I Plasma Siege module does 10,000 DPS - 100,000 DPS with multipliers.
The Mk I Needler module does 7200 DPS - 36,000 DPS with multipliers.

Those are important numbers, but do note that the Needler is also a light module where the other two there are heavies.  A good third heavy for comparison would be the missile module.

[Toranth]

In regards to weapon modules...
The Mk I Photon Lance does about 75,000 DPS (including firing+reload time). 
The Mk I Plasma Siege module does 10,000 DPS - 100,000 DPS with multipliers.
The Mk I Needler module does 7200 DPS - 36,000 DPS with multipliers.

Those are important numbers, but do note that the Needler is also a light module where the other two there are heavies.  A good third heavy for comparison would be the missile module.

That was the point of listing the Needler; That the Siege Module without multipliers is barely better than a default light module.  Of course, WITH multipliers, it kicks the Needler (and other light modules) to the curb.

But still, for reference:
Mk I Missiles does 30,000 DPS, 150,000 DPS with multipliers (which includes Ultra-Heavy)
Mk I Railcluster does 30,000 DPS, 150,000 DPS with multipliers (light ships)
Mk I HBC does about 75,000 DPS.
Mk I Heat Beam does between 25,000 DPS and 220,000 DPS (1-9 targets).

[Lancefighter]

Somewhat important to note that each heavy module's opportunity cost is 3 light modules. Kinda.

So I am actually quite surprised at those needler dps numbers.