Author Topic: VICTORY (spoilers)  (Read 1020 times)

Offline NickAragua

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VICTORY (spoilers)
« on: June 03, 2014, 01:13:56 am »
After years of not being able to crack the AI, I have finally emerged victorious! It was a blood bath, but in the end, we held out long enough to build the galactic portal thing and call someone else to do the work for us (but not before tanking several attempts at a homeworld assault)

Vital stats:
Kills: 407,204 ships
Losses: 82,334 ships (good thing most of them aren't piloted)
7/7 Shield Ninny / Backdoor Hacker (randomly picked)
Fallen Spire victory

Some post game thoughts:
- No more "High Unit Cap" games. I crashed at least three times with out-of-memory exceptions near the end game.
- The Spire units are freaking awesome. By the time you get to the 4-5 spire city stage, you can crush pretty much anything short of a homeworld.
- The Champion scenarios are a little on the boring side. Of course, it's possible that I just happened to upgrade the wrong stuff for said champion.
- The backdoor hacker really can really put the hurt on you when the exowaves start coming out. Be prepared.
- The Human Marauders faction is annoying but I can deal with them (counter-missile turrets render their forces impotent).
- The Dark Spire faction is incredibly annoying with no counter. They're out for future playthroughs.
- Devourer Golem is fun to watch at the beginning, but the joke starts to wear thin when you suddenly notice your entire Spire fleet has disappeared in transit. He's out.
- Astro Trains have gotten to be quite annoying. I'm considering turning them off for future plays.
- Not going past difficulty 7 - I have enough trouble staying alive as it is.
- The new turret caps make energy management quite critical. By the time you've unlocked high-end turrets, energy collectors can't keep up with the energy demands, so it's still critical to pick and choose which systems you defend.
- Attritioners + grav turrets + choke point planet = ha ha

I think it'll be a little while before I start up another round of this game, but man it finally feels good to get a "YOU WIN" screen (with about thirty "YOU LOSE" on the way there)

Question: Is there any reason to have more than one habitation complex in a spire city (other than the extra minerals and turrets)? Seems like I could squeeze out a few more shipyards elsewhere (and thus, more ships) instead if I stack up extra reactors.

Offline Peter Ebbesen

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Re: VICTORY (spoilers)
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2014, 03:54:42 am »
Congratulations!
Ride the Lightning - a newbie Fallen Spire AAR - the AAR of my second serious AI War game. Now completed.

Offline Tridus

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Re: VICTORY (spoilers)
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2014, 08:07:39 am »
- The Spire units are freaking awesome. By the time you get to the 4-5 spire city stage, you can crush pretty much anything short of a homeworld.

Yep! :D You can turn up the Fallen Spire option's intensity in the game lobby if you want a stronger AI response to it. Normal AI stuff doesn't change, but their exo attacks in response can get rather gigantic.

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- The Champion scenarios are a little on the boring side. Of course, it's possible that I just happened to upgrade the wrong stuff for said champion.

In the current beta there's an option for "alternative champion progress", which gives you the champion without the scenarios (you gain XP and unlocks from knowledge and capturing things instead). That's for people who don't want to do the scenarios.

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- The Dark Spire faction is incredibly annoying with no counter. They're out for future playthroughs.

They can get pretty annoying, yeah. Really funny was when they were a lot more powerful and kind of took over half the galaxy. :D

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- Devourer Golem is fun to watch at the beginning, but the joke starts to wear thin when you suddenly notice your entire Spire fleet has disappeared in transit. He's out.
- Astro Trains have gotten to be quite annoying. I'm considering turning them off for future plays.

I don't tend to use those things either, at least not regularly.

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- The new turret caps make energy management quite critical. By the time you've unlocked high-end turrets, energy collectors can't keep up with the energy demands, so it's still critical to pick and choose which systems you defend.

Yeah it's kind of nice to actually have to think about energy. In a FS game before that change, energy was kind of a joke.

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I think it'll be a little while before I start up another round of this game, but man it finally feels good to get a "YOU WIN" screen (with about thirty "YOU LOSE" on the way there)

:D

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Question: Is there any reason to have more than one habitation complex in a spire city (other than the extra minerals and turrets)? Seems like I could squeeze out a few more shipyards elsewhere (and thus, more ships) instead if I stack up extra reactors.

No, there isn't. In fact it's a good idea to build extra shard reactors instead so you can build more shipyards, as more shipyards = more (and bigger) Spire ships. Each shipyard requires one shard reactor somewhre, so if on your first city you build 3 shard reactors, 2 shipyards, and 1 habitation, on your next city you can build 2 shard reactors, 3 shipyards, and 1 habitation.

Alternately you can build "frontline" cities at your choke points that are 4 shard reactors, 1 habitation, and 1 shipyard, and then build a city in a safer spot that has 4 shipyards. Since the shard reactors can mount weapons/shields and the shipyards can't, you want more of those in spots that are getting attacked more heavily.

(Then if you turn on the Zenith Trader, you can add even more stuff to it and make an hilariously absurd choke point. I once had one with a spire city, most of my turrets/mines/tractors, two fortresses, three modular fortresses, a superfortress, two orbital mass drivers, a black hole machine, radar jammer, and planetary armor booster & inhibitor. The AI really didn't have an answer for that. Sadly I didn't manage to build the Ion Cannon mk V, because it's pretty crazy expensive.)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: VICTORY (spoilers)
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2014, 10:24:55 am »
Congratulations!  Particularly with all those factions and plots on, that was hard-fought.

Glad the turret changes are helping make energy feel more like a meaningful mechanic.

On the Hab complexes the only reason to build more than absolutely necessary is the resources they produce.  And you really do want to try to maximize the number of shard reactors and thus shipyards, as Tridus said.  And yes, front line cities do better with a maximized number of reactors for the sake of module count.  You can even go beyond 4/1/1 reactor/hab/shipyard, to 5/1/0 on the frontline.
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Offline NickAragua

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Re: VICTORY (spoilers)
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2014, 11:14:58 am »
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- The Champion scenarios are a little on the boring side. Of course, it's possible that I just happened to upgrade the wrong stuff for said champion.

In the current beta there's an option for "alternative champion progress", which gives you the champion without the scenarios (you gain XP and unlocks from knowledge and capturing things instead). That's for people who don't want to do the scenarios.

I don't really mind the scenarios (I like the random bonus ships I get from them), it's just that I got a little gung ho with my basic module upgrades, instead, I should have been upgrading the good stuff (like the giant energy bomb thing and impulse reaction emitters) so I could blow up bad guy facilities quicker.

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- Devourer Golem is fun to watch at the beginning, but the joke starts to wear thin when you suddenly notice your entire Spire fleet has disappeared in transit. He's out.
- Astro Trains have gotten to be quite annoying. I'm considering turning them off for future plays.

I don't tend to use those things either, at least not regularly.

Yeah, maybe if there was a way to keep the golem off your planets (like some kind of high-energy cost bug spray), I'll consider turning him back on. The main problem I have with Astro trains is the various tractor trains, which necessitate that I keep my fleet blob away from all wormhole-to-wormhole vectors at all times. Re-routing them is impractical because my territory tends to be very.. serpentine in nature.

Good to know about the reactors. I'll keep it in mind for my next game.

A few more thoughts re: homeworld assaults and miscellanea

- How does the AI decide to deploy strategic reserve exactly?
- Does the AI ever stop the exo waves that start up when you attack a homeworld?
- Scrap waves from losses incurred during homeworld assaults are pretty horrific.
- I don't have to launch an assault on the homeworlds from two worlds away - I can build a warp jammer station next door to keep it "unalerted"!
- Why do Mark I raid starships suck so much? Can they get missile immunity back at least? At this point, I might as well not bother building them.

Offline tadrinth

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Re: VICTORY (spoilers)
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2014, 04:22:50 pm »
Missile modules are always available to champs and are great for killing starbases. 

The AI deploys strategic reserve to defend planets it cares about, but won't spend below a certain % depending on what kind of planet it is.  IIRC, the Superterminal is 90%, Core Worlds are 70%, the other AI's homeworld is 30%, and the AI's own homeworld is 0%.  SR ships never leave the planet they're on, and get returned to the strategic reserve's strength fund if all the human ships leave. 

The AI homeworld exos are supposed to stop once you take out that AI Home Command Station. 

Even Mark I raid starships have radar dampening, which lets them sneak around pretty well if you keep them a good distance from guard posts.  Depends on the difficulty and AIP, obviously, but I always found them fairly effective for sniping ion cannons, data centers, and warp gates.  They don't always all make it back if i'm going a couple hops out, but they're also not too terribly expensive.  They don't stay with the rest of my fleet, though, they tend to charge in ahead of the rest and then die, and I'm too lazy to group move them all the time.  Admittedly, champions are also quite good at raiding, especially if swapped to Neinzul hulls, so that may be why you found them underwhelming.  Or the high AIP from doing Fallen Spire might have made things too hairy for Mark Is. 

Offline Burnstreet

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Re: VICTORY (spoilers)
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2014, 08:11:09 am »
Grats.

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They don't stay with the rest of my fleet, though, they tend to charge in ahead of the rest and then die, and I'm too lazy to group move them all the time.
Solution: play an 8+ HW game, get Speed Boosters. Everything but the hero unit is boosted to 1400 speed. Hilarious :)