Author Topic: OK, so how does reclamation work, then?  (Read 3825 times)

Offline atomjack

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OK, so how does reclamation work, then?
« on: December 09, 2011, 06:47:18 am »
I have to confess that I'm somewhat puzzled by the reclamation mechanic. The description for Parasites, for example, says that they fire shots that do reclamation damage. Once the reclamation damage exceeds the health of the target, the target is reclaimed. Going by that description, if a parasite whittles away 99% of the health of a target, which is then finished off by something else, the target should not be reclaimed (as the reclamation damage was only 99% of its health). That's not what actually happens, as far as I can tell, which is just as well, as otherwise parasites would be completely useless.

So, what's the actual mechanism?

Offline kuresuti

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Re: OK, so how does reclamation work, then?
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2011, 07:56:16 am »
The way I interpret it is that when reclamation damage exceeds the targets current health it is reclaimed. This interpretation is also accurate with in-game mechanics, at least it seems like it is.

Offline Hearteater

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Re: OK, so how does reclamation work, then?
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2011, 09:32:10 am »
Reclamation damage is just like normal damage.  If something does 1000 reclamation damage the target loses 1000 health, and 1000 reclamation points are built up on that target.  The reclamation points don't matter until the target dies.  Once a target dies with any reclamation points on it, it gets reclaimed and has health equal to the amount of reclamation points*.  So all you need is a single hit with reclamation damage on a target before it dies and you get to reclaim it.  It might have very low health and therefor get killed by the AI very quickly in a large battle though.

Note that if you are at the ship cap for that ship type and mark, you don't get to reclaim the ship.  It will just die.  Ship caps apply even if you have no way to build the ship in question.  Also, Mark V units cannot be reclaimed.  I can't recall if units that are immune to reclamation will be shot at by units that reclaim or not.

* The tooltips in game on reclamation are incorrect I believe.  The wiki had a better description but I'm having trouble locating it at the moment.  In particular it I think in game it still says reclaimed ships have an initial health equal to 50% of the reclamation points on them which is not right (you can reclaim a ship that starts with 100% health if you only do reclamation damage to prove it).

Offline TechSY730

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Re: OK, so how does reclamation work, then?
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2011, 11:03:56 am »
The mechanics depend on what version you are playing on. The mechanics in the last stable version (5.000) are quite different than in the current beta (5.020)

Offline Cyborg

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Re: OK, so how does reclamation work, then?
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2011, 11:38:51 am »
I don't think every ship that gets hit by reclamation actually gets converted. I think that the killing blow is what does the conversion with the latest patch. That's why leeches aren't as awesome as they used to be.
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: OK, so how does reclamation work, then?
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2011, 12:03:18 pm »
I don't think every ship that gets hit by reclamation actually gets converted. I think that the killing blow is what does the conversion with the latest patch. That's why leeches aren't as awesome as they used to be.

Actually, the logic is MUCH more complicated than that.

This logic is as of the latest patch at the time of this writing (5.020), as the change was made in version 5.001

Reclamation damage is stored separately from normal damage, and is not visible to the user. If at the death of the ship, the reclamation damage/Max HP of that ship > some ratio (50% I think), the ship is reclaimed.
Base reclamation damage is the same as the base weapon damage.

However, where it gets complicated is that depending on mark level, reclamation damage can get a bonus (even though normal damage still get computed normally)

From the release notes (v. 5.001)
    If the reclamator is 4 mks higher than the target (mkV shooting mkI), multiply by 64.
    If the reclamator is 3 mks higher than the target, 48.
    If the reclamator is 2 mks higher than the target, 32.
    If the reclamator is 1 mk higher than the target, 16.
    If the reclamator is the same mk as the target, 8.
    If the reclamator is 1 mk lower than the target, 4.
    If the reclamator is 2 mks lower than the target, 2.
    If the reclamator is 3 mks lower than the target, 1.
    There is no 4-mk-lower case because mkV are not reclaimable.

Worse, some units, like the Neinzul nanoswarm, get a reclamation damage bonus for all hits ON TOP of these values. (for the nanoswarms, 10x I think)

And to finally round out this madness, these rules only apply to normal reclaimers. Zombie reclaimers use a different method of reclamation bonus damage tracking to determine net reclamation damage (though the same ratio of damage to reclaim rule still holds true)

The rules for 5.000 are much simpler, but much worse for the usefulness of reclaimers. In 5.000, net reclamation damage is the same as normal damage (no global bonus shenanigans, only ship type specific bonuses), but with the restriction that a Mk. X reclaimer flat out CANNOT reclaim anything that is 2 or more mark levels above it, no matter how much reclamation damage it managed to inflict.
Base attack power of reclaimers were nerfed pretty hard from 5.000 to 5.001 to compensate for this change, but with the buff that they can now reclaim much more stuff.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 06:59:25 pm by techsy730 »

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: OK, so how does reclamation work, then?
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2011, 12:47:54 pm »
Yea, understanding exactly what's going on in reclamation damage isn't very easy, but actually reclaiming is much easier than it was for a while there.  But not nearly so easy as "my leech starship tags dozens of ships per salvo and they're all reclaimed when they die".  That was a lot of fun, but it became one of those so-optimal-it-feels-compulsory strategies for some folks.
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Offline atomjack

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Re: OK, so how does reclamation work, then?
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2011, 06:47:41 pm »
Ah, that makes much more sense. Thanks for the explanations! I'd been wondering why my cap of mk I and II parasites were quite so useless on mk III and IV worlds.

Could the parasite (and spire teleporting leech etc) description be updated to give more of this info? At least the fact that reclamation damage scales strongly with mark difference should be mentioned.

Offline supamanu

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Re: OK, so how does reclamation work, then?
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2012, 07:56:32 pm »
Honestly, I have yet to see reclamation actually work (but I haven't tried very hard to make it work). Probably because the reclaimed ships get blown to smithereens the moment they change sides as suggested here. But just once, just once,  I should try and set up a trap to actually see a ship turning its coat, because I want to believe that this actually happens :)

Until then, I will always feel slightly cheated when I build ships with that ability.

Offline Wanderer

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Re: OK, so how does reclamation work, then?
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2012, 08:13:23 pm »
Honestly, I have yet to see reclamation actually work (but I haven't tried very hard to make it work). Probably because the reclaimed ships get blown to smithereens the moment they change sides as suggested here. But just once, just once,  I should try and set up a trap to actually see a ship turning its coat, because I want to believe that this actually happens :)

Until then, I will always feel slightly cheated when I build ships with that ability.

The trick to really taking advantage of this is to bring mobile repair stations with you.  They'll cause an automatic rally point for anything reclaimed if you turn the option on, and get them repaired and ready to go at the same time.  You'll usually get about 1/2 of what you reclaim out of the fight and usable that way.
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Offline supamanu

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Re: OK, so how does reclamation work, then?
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2012, 06:51:43 pm »
Thanks for the tip. I'll definitely try it out.

Offline Hearteater

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Re: OK, so how does reclamation work, then?
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2012, 09:46:20 pm »
If you have a minor system that keeps getting small bits of border aggression (< 200 ships), a Military Command Station and Mobile Repair Station under a Force Field, 10-20 Spider Turrets, and all your Leech Starships on FRD are perfect for reclaiming a lot of ships over time without any micro on your part.

Offline FarAway Warrior

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Re: OK, so how does reclamation work, then?
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2012, 11:08:54 pm »
Thanks for the tip. I'll definitely try it out.

Actually, combining Parasites with Leech starships can be a GREAT defensive tactic.  It's a nice way to beef your local defenses up with modest numbers of "non-discovered" ships that won't apply to your Ship Cap (because you can't produce them in the first place).  Facing incoming waves, turrets provide the great attrition equalizer and you don't need the same overwhelming preponderance of ships & firepower that you do when mounting attacks on enemy systems, so massing Parasites and Leaches to defend one of your own systems nicely kills two birds with one stone.

This is especially true if you're facing a wave of missile frigates, since both Leach and Parasite ships are immune to Missile damage (but it's always a good idea to confirm that in the ship descriptions, as this sort of thing can be nerfed in a hurry).

Offline PokerChen

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Re: OK, so how does reclamation work, then?
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2012, 04:05:53 pm »
Just an additional question: Is reclamation damage repairable?