Updating the Wiki

[PokerChen]

Removed the smaller font sizes style. Well, in lieu of access to common.css, I made a template just for the header section. Updated the
templates list to include the templates I've done.

There's a bit more that can be done w.r.t. formatting, but this should be sufficient for our current purposes.

The color of the entire wiki can probably be done by re-skinning the defaults - this is also done on the "root"-access level (at which point we should probably tailor a tables to fit with the white). I can always reskin for myself.

Interesting.

It looks like you dug deeper into how tables work then I did.

Having said that and having checked them on both my home and work computer, I find the text size on the first two tables to be a little to small to read easily. (AI Types and the Ships and Structures page).

Beyond that, I like the color scheme of the Ships and Structures page better.

As I don't know how (and don't have the time to learn at the moment) how to change the background color for the entire wiki, we are stuck with the white background and that's the table that looks the best to me with that limitation in place.

D.

[Diazo]

2 more pages up:

http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_Plots

http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Armor_Types_and_Bonus_Damage

Not 100% sure I'm happy with the formatting, but I'm pretty sure all the information is there.

Thoughts?

D.

[_K_]

2 more pages up:

http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_Plots

http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Armor_Types_and_Bonus_Damage

Not 100% sure I'm happy with the formatting, but I'm pretty sure all the information is there.

Thoughts?

D.

The Core Shield Gen paragraph could use a note that the A-network protects all ARS's, and the B-network protects Adv. Facs.

For the armor types, it would be nice to put the most notable ships and ship classes which use a given armor class, as well as the most notable ships with attack bonuses against these armor classes.

[Diazo]

I did comment on the polycrystal - fortress relationship, but which others deserve comment?

Any other ships I worry about are not because of their armor type, its because they have radar dampening, or standoff range, or some other mechanic.

D.

[_K_]

I did comment on the polycrystal - fortress relationship, but which others deserve comment?

The first thing that comes to mind is the command-grade hull type which has been discussed recently. The most notable units with it are command stations and H-K's, and most static defences have a 0.05 or something multiplier against it.

Other armor types would require me to check the ingame unit encyclopedia, and i dont have time right now.
So as i said, it would be nice just to list which of the most common units have the types of armor (basically, all units the player have available through research: the triangle, starships, all kinds of defences and other structures, maybe golems and spireships; plus some of the more popular and simple bonus ship types), and what ships have bonuses against these kinds of armor.

[Bognor]

I added some notes on all the hull types.  I deliberately avoided mentioning specific bonus fleet ships since they're individually so rare, instead making generalizations about types of fleet ships where appropriate.  I haven't added anything about Guardians or Guard posts, but if anyone's noticed some trends or especially salient examples, go for it.  Note the term the game uses is "Hull type", not "Armor type", which helps avoid confusion with the actual armor value that is subtracted from incoming damage.

[Diazo]

Thank you for that Bognor.

And ya, armor type should get changed to hull type everywhere on the wiki.

That's what I get for doing the initial setup way back when from memory without checking the ingame terminology.

Same goes for Bonus Damage, that should be Attack Multiplier instead.

I'm also going to have to split both the Armor Types and Bonus damage page as well as the Ammunition Types and Immunities pages from 2 to 4 pages I think and just link between them for the relationships they have.

I'll try to do that this evening but it may have to wait until the weekend.

D.

[TechSY730]

Just a question, how did you get the AI type attack and defense multipliers?
If you want, I can try to double check them for you.

[TechSY730]

Thanks to my previous inqueries, I know that linking against the main AIWar dll is fine by the devs. As such, I wrote this fun little thing. (class, imports, and other junk omitted)

Code: [Select]

static int Main(string[] args)static int Main(string[] args)
{
Player aiPlayerRaw = new Player(9); //"Real" AIs start at player slot 9, so lets do that here
AIPlayer aiPlayer = new AIPlayer(aiPlayerRaw); //Initialize the AI specific information associated with a player
AIPlanet aiPlanet = new AIPlanet(0); //"Blank" AI specific state for the "planet" to work against
//Pass in a real StringBuilder if you want to see what would of been written to the log file
System.Text.StringBuilder builder = null; //new System.Text.StringBuilder();

//Is there a better way to iterate through all enumeration values? I'm not that familiar with C#
for(int i = 0; i < (int)AIType.Length; ++i)
{
aiPlayer.AIType = (AIType)i;
Console.Out.Write(((AIType)i).ToString() + ": ");
Console.Out.Write("Attack: " + Math.Round(AIRouting.AdjustNumberShipsFromAIType(aiPlayer, aiPlanet, FInt.FromParts(100, 0), false, builder).ToFloatNonSim())+ "% ");
Console.Out.WriteLine("Defense: " + Math.Round(AIRouting.AdjustNumberShipsFromAIType(aiPlayer, aiPlanet, FInt.FromParts(100, 0), true, builder).ToFloatNonSim()) + "%");
}
        if(builder != null)
Console.Out.WriteLine(builder.ToString());
return 0;
}

And here is what I get

Code: [Select]

None: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Entrenched_Homeworlder: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Vicious_Raider: Attack: 150% Defense: 30%
Fortress_Baron: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Sledge_Hammer: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Assassin: Attack: 125% Defense: 100%
Bully: Attack: 125% Defense: 100%
Turtle: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Technologist_Homeworlder: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Technologist_Raider: Attack: 150% Defense: 30%
Mad_Bomber: Attack: 200% Defense: 1%
Feeding_Parasite: Attack: 125% Defense: 100%
Stealth_Master: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Special_Forces_Captain: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Train_Master: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Teleporter_Turtle: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Counter_Spy: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Scorched_Earth: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Shadow_Master: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Attritioner: Attack: 125% Defense: 40%
Backdoor_Hacker: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Random_Easier: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Random_Moderate: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Random_Harder: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Random_All: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Mine_Enthusiast: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
The_Tank: Attack: 100% Defense: 30%
Random_Moderate_And_Easier: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Technologist_Parasite: Attack: 125% Defense: 100%
Technologist_Turtle: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Technologist_Sledge_Hammer: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
The_Core: Attack: 50% Defense: 30%
Raid_Engine: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Alarmist: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Random_Harder_Non_Technologist: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Random_All_Non_Technologist: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Camouflager: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Experimentalist: Attack: 125% Defense: 40%
StarfleetCommander: Attack: 125% Defense: 40%
ZenithDescendant: Attack: 125% Defense: 40%
Golemite: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
SpeedRacer: Attack: 125% Defense: 100%
Peacemaker: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
RadarJammer: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
OneWayDoormaster: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
TagTeamer: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
ShieldNinny: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
GravDriller: Attack: 125% Defense: 40%
NeinzulClusterBomber: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
NeinzulViralEnthusiast: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
NeinzulNester: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
NeinzulYoungster: Attack: 150% Defense: 25%
SupportCorps: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
WarpJumper: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Vanilla: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Everything: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Retaliatory: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Spireling: Attack: 125% Defense: 40%
CraftySpire: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%
Thief: Attack: 125% Defense: 100%
ExtremeRaider: Attack: 150% Defense: 30%
SpireHammer: Attack: 100% Defense: 100%

Notice that there are some not "actual" AI types in there, like the Random types, and the most fearsome AI type of all time, None!

Anyways, as of 5.033, these should be the right multipliers, straight from the game engine.


If you want, I can try to construct similar "queries" for other stuff (not just AI data, but ship data and the like)

[PokerChen]

Hmmm... so the turtle and support types don't actually get additional reinforcements through increased defensive multipliers?

[Bognor]

Just a question, how did you get the AI type attack and defense multipliers?

I'm not Diazo, but Keith put those numbers on the wiki in January, at Why Do Enemy Waves Get So Large?

Hmmm... so the turtle and support types don't actually get additional reinforcements through increased defensive multipliers?

I'd wondered the same thing, and asked Keith about it a little while ago.  I guess he won't mind me sharing his response:

Yea, there's a ton of other factors, like the turtle seeding with 3x as many forcefields, more wormhole guard posts, more astro train stations (if enabled) and having max "planet defensive level" values which influences a lot of the initial seeding logic for fortresses, etc.  Their reinforcements also act as if AIP were 30 higher than it is.

They don't have an explicitly set reinforcement multiplier, meaning it defaults to one.  I can also ask Chris about that, but in practice the Turtle seems to fulfill its role.

[Bognor]

By the way, all those "Technologist" AI types that say "the enemy uses only the highest-technologies right from the start", does that mean they use exclusively Mark-V ships?  So "The Core" is actually something like "Technologist Vanilla", except with smaller wave and reinforcement multipliers?

[keith.lamothe]

The other deal with Turtles, that I may not have remembered earlier, was that they _do_ get waves, but the waves are simply turned into extra reinforcements.  A positive reinforcement multiplier on top of that would get ugly

[TechSY730]

Just a note on the Mad Bomber AI Type.
They don't actually get 1% reinforcements, but rather a cap of 1 ship. Yep, at most 1 ship per guard point being reinforced per reinforce cycle.
Mad Bomber's reinforce at an absolutely pathetic rate.

[Diazo]

By the way, all those "Technologist" AI types that say "the enemy uses only the highest-technologies right from the start", does that mean they use exclusively Mark-V ships?  So "The Core" is actually something like "Technologist Vanilla", except with smaller wave and reinforcement multipliers?

I'm pretty sure Technologist means it gets a Mark level (maybe 2 Mark levels) higher of ships then it would otherwise, The Core is the only one that gets exclusively Mark V ships.

Actually, I'm pretty sure Technologist get 2 marks higher, so against a diff 8 technologist, waves would start at Mk 4.

D.