Author Topic: Two possible bugs with Riot Starships  (Read 1188 times)

Offline Fluffiest

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
Two possible bugs with Riot Starships
« on: June 18, 2013, 05:24:34 am »
Now, these might be bugs, or they might just be me completely failing to understand how riot starships are meant to work.

Firstly, all of the riot starship mkI modules say that they can only reduce engine health to a certain amount - 25% for the laser, 40% for the machine-gun - but I've definitely seen mkI Riot Starships leave enemies completely immobilised. I assume this is because of the guns mounted on the starship itself, rather than the hardpoints, but I don't know if it's intended behaviour - what's the point of limiting the engine damage the modules can inflict when the ship's own built-in guns ignore that limit?

Secondly, these completely immobilised enemies seem to be impossible to grab with tractor beams, which is a pain when I want to tow them through a wormhole to their doom. I think this is a slightly misbehaving feature - it makes sense for defensive tractor beam turrets to ignore immobilised foes, since they're not going anywhere, but I don't know if that smart targeting should have been carried across to mobile tractor platforms like the riot starship.

And, an aside - which module types do people prefer? I'm currently using 4* machine gun, 1* shield, and either 1* tractor or 1* riot shotgun depending on whether I want to capture ships or incapacitate them. All the medium hardpoints seem to have their niche, but I have no idea whether lasers or machine guns are better.

Offline relmz32

  • Full Member Mark II
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
Re: Two possible bugs with Riot Starships
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2013, 08:27:40 am »
I will let Keith answer the questions, but as for what I use: typically 1 machine gun, 3 laser, 1 shield, 1 tractor as my general layout.
I use them as escorts for my offensive fleets, using them as blockers mainly, i path them through clumps of enemies , pushing them away from my fragile ships, and/or bringing them into range so that my fleet can fight on my terms.
A programmer had a problem. She thought to herself, "I know, I'll solve it with threads!". has Now problems. two she.

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: Two possible bugs with Riot Starships
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2013, 09:43:13 am »
what's the point of limiting the engine damage the modules can inflict when the ship's own built-in guns ignore that limit?
Main gun range < module range :)

Quote
Secondly, these completely immobilised enemies seem to be impossible to grab with tractor beams
As designed, though if people want a control or something like that to suppress the "don't tractor stuff that's paralyzed or engine-dead" check, that's something which could be added.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Histidine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 581
Re: Two possible bugs with Riot Starships
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2013, 10:25:37 am »
Could tractors be taught to grab immobilized/paralyzed units, but drop them if a still-moving unit comes in range of the tractor and all beams are currently in use?

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: Two possible bugs with Riot Starships
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2013, 10:27:08 am »
Could tractors be taught to grab immobilized/paralyzed units, but drop them if a still-moving unit comes in range of the tractor and all beams are currently in use?
In theory, but that may not be what's actually desired here.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Chthon

  • Sr. Member Mark II
  • ****
  • Posts: 398
Re: Two possible bugs with Riot Starships
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2013, 10:32:19 am »
Could tractors be taught to grab immobilized/paralyzed units, but drop them if a still-moving unit comes in range of the tractor and all beams are currently in use?
In theory, but that may not be what's actually desired here.

I thought this was actually how tractor beams were changed recently.  Why would it not be desired here?

Offline LordSloth

  • Sr. Member Mark III
  • ****
  • Posts: 430
Re: Two possible bugs with Riot Starships
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2013, 10:52:44 am »
Hypothetical:
Would you like to drop that immobile Zenith Bombard in favor of tractoring a full engine laser gatling away from your shielded command?

Offline Fluffiest

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
Re: Two possible bugs with Riot Starships
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2013, 01:12:23 pm »
What are the normal target priority settings for tractor beams? Do they prioritize more dangerous units?

Currently, we have the following issues:
* If mobile tractor platforms like riots and etherjets are unable to tractor immobilized units, no matter how few other targets they have, this will annoy people.
* If tractor turrets camping on wormholes let mobile units slip through the net in favour of tractoring units that are already engine-killed, this will annoy people.
* When tractor platforms are saturated with targets, they will inevitably pick the wrong targets sometimes.

I don't think completely ignoring immobilized units is ever the correct behaviour - if there are beams to spare, there's no real cost to catching immobilized units.

So, I'd add a toggle "Tractors deprioritize immobilised targets" - when active, tractor units will only capture immobilised ships if there are no other targets available. When off, tractors will ignore the engine health of units when picking targets.

Offline TechSY730

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,570
Re: Two possible bugs with Riot Starships
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2013, 01:41:28 pm »
Deprioritizing immobile units for immobile tractors certainly seems a better option than ignoring them, if it wasn't for the targeting "pacing", which complicates the issue.

There is already a rule the makes mobile tractors still tractor engine dead units. However, as the tractor module is immobile (despite being attached to a mobile ship), I think it slips past this rule.

Offline Ranakastrasz

  • Full Member Mark III
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
Re: Two possible bugs with Riot Starships
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2013, 04:21:49 pm »
Deprioritizing immobile units for immobile tractors certainly seems a better option than ignoring them, if it wasn't for the targeting "pacing", which complicates the issue.

There is already a rule the makes mobile tractors still tractor engine dead units. However, as the tractor module is immobile (despite being attached to a mobile ship), I think it slips past this rule.

Sounds like a lot of your module unit code ought to be referring to the host unit, instead of the unit itself. Otherwise you have to write a ton of exceptions