Turret Controllers

[Toranth]

The nerf I've been planning is to extend the "can't build core (X) turret on same planet as non-core (X) turret" (where X is needler, laser, etc) to "can't build any core turret on same planet as any non-core turret (that has a core variant, so leaving grav/tractor/etc out of this)".

So, you'll be removing Core Lightning and Core Flak turrets from the game?
At least, in practice.  As a serious matter, I cannot imagine using those unless I'd already captured Core Missile or Core Sniper controllers.

If none of my previous ideas work, maybe the radical answer is to change all the turrets to be per planet caps. Lower the caps on them and just let people build everything everywhere.

The idea of lowering turret caps and making them per-planet has certainly come up before, but the "lowering caps" part is simply intolerable to too many people here.

Even with Core Turrets in the 6.044 Overpowered state, Exowaves will still roll right over them.  That sort of AI firepower is why chokepoints are basically a requirement.  If the chokepoint is eliminated by making all defenses distributed, then something needs to be done to balance the Ai response to the current fortifications.

Although, playing with Core Turrets has put me significantly more in favor of the 'distributed defense in-depth' idea.  I just think it'll be a huge rebalance, along the same order of effort as the Armor rework.  But I'm leaning more in favor of it that the pro-chokepoint view I used to hold.

[keith.lamothe]

If the chokepoint is eliminated by making all defenses distributed, then something needs to be done to balance the Ai response to the current fortifications.

I'm pretty sure that the approach orzelek mentioned (and mine, while somewhat different, is similar in this respect) would not diminish the power you can put on a chokepoint literally at all.  So I don't think any of the likely ways forward would actually lead to the problem you're describing.

[MaxAstro]

Another advantage of distributed turrets is it would indirectly devalue miniforts.  Right now miniforts are practically the only source of distributed defense; they have become a "duh" unlock for me because they are free force multipliers you can put on every planet.

If all turrets are distributed defense, then miniforts become less of a "must have" and more of a "nice to have".

Awesome to hear you are going to try something like this out, Keith.  I look forward to it.  (And my g/f, who is a turtle/chokepoint fiend, says she likes the idea, too )

[ZaneWolfe]

Change the turret controllers so that each one unlocks 1/8th of a cap of every mk V turret. In this case you can't use one of them to replace standard turrets at a chokepoint because there just isn't enough of the given type (thus solving my issue of feeling foolish for paying for mk II missile turrets, or spider turrets at all), but it's actively helpful everywhere. It also makes more of them useful all the time, because capturing another one would raise the cap. The distributed defense side of it is actually improved IMO, because instead of getting a lot of one kind of firepower you're getting some of every kind of firepower at once, on every world you want to defend.[/li][/list]

This ^. It completely eliminates the, "If only lightning or flak controllers are near me then they are useless" issue. (Which I am not entirely sure I agree with. A full cap of those, prior to the nerf in caps, could do a serious number on things, enough for my heavy beam cannons and fortress to finish off things. They slaughtered most normal waves and my heavies only needed to kill starships) while also making them more interesting/worth the 20 AIP you need to take the controller.

I would however make it a 1/4th cap, or at worst a 1/6th cap. Meaning if you do collect every single one of the 8 controllers, you can get MORE than the normal ca of turrets. This would make them more than worth capturing, while making them even better if you go beyond 4-6 controllers you need to just get a full cap of each. Yes this COULD be used to buff chokes, but only after you got several controllers and thus is acceptable IMO. If you are getting 160 AIP to get these they should be very freaking useful IMO. I would however leave in the "cant use core turrets on worlds you have normal turrets on" (barring things like Heavy Beam Cannon which have no core version) as an added restriction to keep them from becoming too OP.

[chemical_art]

While a bit complicated, what if core turrets are further reduced, but more are unlocked if you invest k into the turret. For example if at base game you would get 12 needler turrets, but if you have needler II you get another 12 and with III a further 12.

[Lord Fiddlemeister]

While a bit complicated, what if core turrets are further reduced, but more are unlocked if you invest k into the turret. For example if at base game you would get 12 needler turrets, but if you have needler II you get another 12 and with III a further 12.

I really like this idea. It makes spending K on turrets still worth it. I just wonder if it would be worth it to capture a controller without wanting to spend K on that type of turret.

[LaughingThesaurus]

Yeah my concern with that idea is, I'll just ignore turret controllers entirely because I got better things to spend my K on usually.

[MaxAstro]

Yeah, I'm with LaughingThesaurus on this one.  Turret Controllers shouldn't require K investment when they already require AIP to capture the planet.

[chemical_art]

Yeah my concern with that idea is, I'll just ignore turret controllers entirely because I got better things to spend my K on usually.

With the current core turrets though, even with the reduced mechanics, if you are reasonably certain you can hold them, then spending K on that turret is even less of a good idea.

[chemical_art]

It is too late i know to put this in for 7.0 , but what if core turrets have 1/10 the cap oc normal gurrets, and prevent building mk I turrets, but not for II or III? The result in practuce that you would not strenthen effective chokepoint str on chokes, but have more total def str. In addition mk ii and iii woulx always be usful.