Transport thoughts.

[keith.lamothe]

Well, I don't want to have multiple types of transports (except maybe a new one to fill the role of transporting slow starships between friendly systems), and I get the impression that most folks don't want multiple types (though if I'm wrong about that I'll reconsider my own position).

I'm trying to take the nerfs one at a time, as we want them to remain useful, and to help project power both between systems (moderate deep raiding, bypassing minefields and such) and within systems (actually getting the bombers to the command station under heavy fire).  They have additional sub-roles of shuttling stuff between friendly systems, and storing high-energy ships (fortresses work well for that).  They aren't intended to increase micro and we have some planned changes that will help with that, but to some degree it is unavoidable without having the game automatically build them, load units and unload and I can't think of a way of making that not infuriate most players

Edit: and what specifically do you mean by ai targeting exploits?  People have mentioned those but I've been tired and busy

[x4000]

The new 3.099 version that I just put out should address the AI targeting exploits.  That's when you send some transports (or whatever other ship) way off into deep space as an exploit to the AI targeting, or to do knowledge raiding at far too easy a level, etc.  The 3.099 version harshly caps the speed of player ships that go out too far, making it so that players can go out infinitely but that it is unpleasant and unwise to do so, and they can't hide from freed AI ships by doing so.  As much fun as I myself had with doing that, it was abusive.

In tandem with that, I also changed the transport reduction from 45% to 35%.  After 2 hops that leaves you at 70% health, which still means you can't make a third hop without dying, but it makes it so that you can sustain 30% hull damage from other sources, rather than a measly 10% hull damage from other sources.  Should affect the range capping as desired without making transports completely brittle again.

[SmileyFace]

Well, I don't want to have multiple types of transports (except maybe a new one to fill the role of transporting slow starships between friendly systems), and I get the impression that most folks don't want multiple types (though if I'm wrong about that I'll reconsider my own position).

Is there a technical reason why starships can't be carried by transports? I know it doesn't make sense logically (starships = big) but for gameplay, it's a drawback to leave them behind.

About the AI targeting exploits, well... well X just explained and fixed it in the time it took me to explain it! That. Is. FAST!

[x4000]

Recently, I have been thinking more that perhaps starships should be placeable in regular transports like anything else.  It seems to be more of an inconvenience than anything else for folks, and it's not worth that.  Of course, then people will complain about a giant starship only taking one "slot" in the transport, but I think that is livable.  I don't want to get into "how many slots does each ship take?" like a lot of other games do.  In this game, we already have some starship-sized ships (sentinel frigates, zenith bombers, etc) that are fully carryable inside transports because they are considered fleet ships.  At this stage, it's feeling increasingly arbitrary that starships cannot also be carried along inside.

Thoughts, all?

[SmileyFace]

The new 3.099 version ... [does awesome things!].

Thank you! These just made my day Does v3.099 also make the AI fire at the most heavily loaded transports first? I don't mind if they become clairvoyant like that: it's worth it in this case!

Edit (to above post): Yes, let starships be carried in transports. They're a major part of a fleet and it's lousy to have to leave them behind for an assault i.e. through a perma-mined wormhole.

[keith.lamothe]

If you're ok with it, I'm all for starships-in-transports.  A bit unrealistic, but I think that's far outweighed by the usability win.  Would make Dreads much less painful to use

[x4000]

I don't want AI ships to gain clairvoyance about the most heavily-laden transports, as I feel like that breaks some intentional player strategies (bringing along decoys) that are important and non-abusive.

But, now out:

Updates in 3.100:

-Starships can now be carried in transports like any other ship.

[SmileyFace]

I don't want AI ships to gain clairvoyance about the most heavily-laden transports, as I feel like that breaks some intentional player strategies (bringing along decoys) that are important and non-abusive.

But, now out:

Updates in 3.100:

-Starships can now be carried in transports like any other ship.

Oh ok. That's interesting; I always feel like I'm exploiting something when the AI fires on empty transport ships and I know full well I have my "real" transports right next to them. The thing is, there's no risk involved. The empty transports will probably survive (almost as much HP as a spire) and even if they don't, I don't lose a big investment (1 ship). Certainly my fleet is never threatened.

I compare this to raids, where I stand to lose a more sizeable investment (a group of ships) in order to achieve my objective (a targeted strike). There's risk in that.

I think I'll play around this decoy transports some more and see how much easier they make my current game (if at all).

[x4000]

Well, there may be more balancing needed on transports in general, I'll grant you that.  But if at all possible my goal is to keep the decoys as a thing, because I think it's valid.  You're spending a ton on energy just to have the decoy there, after all.

[SmileyFace]

Well, there may be more balancing needed on transports in general, I'll grant you that.  But if at all possible my goal is to keep the decoys as a thing, because I think it's valid.  You're spending a ton on energy just to have the decoy there, after all.

Yeah, that's true. They're not cheap... Hmm, I wonder what would happen if the energy costs were increased... Nah, a decoy transport is so useful (and durable) I reckon I'd pay any amount of energy for them.

[keith.lamothe]

Well, remember that energy equates to a certain amount of metal+crystal rate, and a certain amount of territory and/or risk (ZPGs).  You can't just make infinite quantities.

[x4000]

But yeah, increasing energy costs for them is one thing that has been on my mind.

[keith.lamothe]

Yea, I think it's better than a hard ship cap; this way your transport fleet size scales with your empire size, and takes away from resources available for the actual fighting fleet.

[Kjara]

If you can just fix the energy exploit with them, I think they are getting closer to balanced with the damage changes and the speed changes outside the well.

[RCIX]

Of course, then people will complain about a giant starship only taking one "slot" in the transport, but I think that is livable.

But quibbling over slot counts is so fun!