Author Topic: Transport thoughts.  (Read 13006 times)

Offline allmybase

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Re: Transport thoughts.
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2010, 01:24:08 pm »
Here we go:

Transports can no longer load military units, and the AI now chooses to disregard them as well.

This way they can't be used as decoys, and they can't drop off troops for lightning strikes, but they are still very useful for getting science labs and colony ships wherever they need to get to. No penalties to life or speed for being out of supply.

Offline SmileyFace

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Re: Transport thoughts.
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2010, 02:02:01 pm »
The thing about transports is... no-one seems to agree on why they exist. This is step #1. Are they supposed to be:

1 A way around perma-mines/fortified wormholes?
2 Invulnerability to strike at adjacent command centres, etc?
3 Nigh invulnerability for deep raids?
4 Micromanagement tools to make slow ships move around faster?
5 An exploit of the AI targeting code?

Because they do it all. 1 seems the only intended usage. 2 & 3 remove strategy, tactics and risk. 4 is ridiculous, given the stance on micro in AI war. 5 is shameful.

Suggestions:
-Keep high health.
-Keep instant unload.
-Transports can only carry military ships & engineers.
-Transports explode if out of supply.
-Transports can't carry units for 5 mins after unload (adds risk to transport raids in neighbouring systems).

And on the wish list:
-Transports can carry starships. Each starship occupies 20-40 space.

I hate leaving them all behind when I use transports.

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Transport thoughts.
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2010, 02:09:35 pm »
They seem to exist because all other methods to clear wormholes cost progression which, as i am sure everyone agrees, is not acceptable ^^
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Transport thoughts.
« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2010, 02:27:08 pm »
About 90% of the suggestions in this thread would make transports completely useless. While they are quite overpowered now, nerfing them to oblivion isn't the solution.
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Offline allmybase

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Re: Transport thoughts.
« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2010, 02:31:39 pm »
About 90% of the suggestions in this thread would make transports completely useless. While they are quite overpowered now, nerfing them to oblivion isn't the solution.

It's way better than having them overpowered. I would much rather they be useless than overpowered.

Offline wyvern83

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Re: Transport thoughts.
« Reply #50 on: April 19, 2010, 02:42:11 pm »
I agree with Moonshine Fox: Some utility is far better than none. Making transports worthless is a waste of code and time.

Perhaps transports should cost 5000 instead of 4000 given their usefulness. I wouldn't change anything else about them atm, better to wait and see how the current beta transports change things first.

Offline WinterBorn

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Re: Transport thoughts.
« Reply #51 on: April 19, 2010, 06:27:06 pm »
Not really, i ninja raided with about 2k ships (maxed cap MkI-MkIII of fighters/bombers/laser gatlings, plus Z bombards MkI and II capped) on an unaware AI, and i failed while the homeworld had half health left. ::)

How did transports fail you? ???  :D

Offline RCIX

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Re: Transport thoughts.
« Reply #52 on: April 19, 2010, 06:29:02 pm »
I feel that transports should do the following:

Cover ships for deep raids (but not too deep/well, or on really valuable targets)
Provide high-speed protected ship movement throughout my empire (which is scattered about the map)

Right now, they fulfill 2 just fine, and 1 too well. If you make them not immune to mass drivers (which all the really important targets are protected by), and perhaps drop their health some (so they can go out a few less jumps before dying), that will provide them with a solidly useful role without being OP..

Edit: it's not the transports that failed me, its my fleet: apparently my shipcap of bombers wasn't enough to destroy a command station even with all the escort i had :(
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Offline WinterBorn

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Re: Transport thoughts.
« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2010, 11:31:01 pm »
X4000 has spoken -- Deep raiders weep  :'(   :'(
 
- transport ships attrition-on-wormhole-traversal (into a planet that is out-of-supply) increased from 12.5% to 45%

 ;)

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Transport thoughts.
« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2010, 11:35:22 pm »
45% attrition of max health or of current health.. that is the question ;) If the latter its not really a nerf.. and also this only means you need twice as many decoys ;p
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Offline Kjara

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Re: Transport thoughts.
« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2010, 11:41:51 pm »
the 12.5% was max health, my guess is that the 45% is max health.

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Transport thoughts.
« Reply #56 on: April 19, 2010, 11:49:55 pm »
Ah, then that should at least reduce the deep raiding then. Sounds good to me ^^
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Offline FrostyThePyro

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Re: Transport thoughts.
« Reply #57 on: April 20, 2010, 03:09:39 am »
I would have preffered speed nerf outside of supply and occupants are paralized for a signifigant time (15 seconds?) if the transport is destroyed/scraped.

Massive health loss seems, odd to me.


Alternitivly you could give them high engine health, and engine health degneration outside of supply.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Transport thoughts.
« Reply #58 on: April 20, 2010, 08:45:48 am »
Allow me to cross post what I said in the release thread:

On the transport nerf, it's intentionally pretty intense, to match the intensity of folks ranting about how OP they were ;)  I'm happy to reduce the nerf if there's some kind of player consensus but it sounds like even at this intensity there's a fair bit of player support for it (though play-experience may change that).  To clarify the meaning of the self-damage, you should be able to do this:

H-P-1 ---> A-P-1 -> A-P-2 (55%) -> A-P-3 (10%) -> A-P-4 (10%) -> H-P-2

Where H-P-1 and H-P-2 are both planets human owned and providing supply to themselves and their neighbors, and A-P-2 and A-P-3 are both AI owned and not in supply (A-P-1 and A-P-4 being neighbors of the human planets and thus in supply; no coprocessors in this example, those could be murder).  When it was 12.5 percent this chain could be pretty long indeed, though finite (which was a big improvement).

So being able to hop over 4 AI worlds is still pretty good, though you can't afford to lose more than 10% health to other sources of damage as you do so.

I just checked the code to make sure that it should work this way, but please let me know if it's different in practice.

For the micro-repair thing, I agree that having to run off to fringe-space to repair is pretty mental (though the cloaker starship combo is quite valid and clever, reminds me of WC2 with an invis'd mage in an invis'd transport shoving off to magebomb an island goldmine).  My initial reaction is to make transports non-repairable-by-normal-means (remember that on a friendly planet, the green ones above, they auto-regen from 0 to full in 30 seconds), and give them some sort of buff to counterbalance that because I can already hear the wailings of agony ;)
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Offline SmileyFace

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Re: Transport thoughts.
« Reply #59 on: April 20, 2010, 10:04:10 am »
Eeenteresting... 45% attrition to prevent deep raids, but it's still intentionally low enough to allow some hops to provide reinforcements between friendly systems... And as a side effect, that still allows for some deep raids (especially if decoy transports are used).

Again, transports have too much utility, leading to vagueness around their intended function(s). At the moment they are a bit like someone trying to fill too many things on your feet at once. Perhaps pick two or three functions and hone transports to do these really well. Make something else to fill the other roles.

i.e. specialise transports as a way to evade minefields/dangerous wormholes and to help raid neighbouring systems only. Make something else to transport friendly units between player/ally planets, preferably something without so much micromanagement involved.