Those botnet golems

[keith.lamothe]

Sounds reclamation itself should be looked at. Of course that is its own can of worms.

I'm basically fine leaving it where it is unless reclamation cheese gets much more prevalent.

It's been around the block before.  It used to be brutally overpoweringly... well, OP.  Then it was nerfed in various ways, and eventually nerfed into the ground.  But that's not much fun, so eventually it was brought back up with the nanite-hopping mechanic and a few other things.

I'd rather it be fun and exploitable than just not fun, though mitigating the exploits would of course be nice.

[keith.lamothe]

I think getting extra CPAs for having a Botnet would actually be a buff...more ships to reclaim!  Unless it was a zombie CPA.

Haha, yea, for a normal CPA it may as well switch to saying "AI Launching CPA Against Itself In 09:34..."

[KDR_11k]

However, given how AI Wars has shifted_so_hard away from units away from reclaimation

At the same time I get feedback from folks who exploit reclamation to basically disqualifyingly-cheesy levels.  They don't research mkII/III/etc fleet ships, they reclaim them.

Don't those people use parasites though? Zombies are fairly shortlived and not a substitute for your own fleet.

Also Cinth's objection sounds like the BNG does not adjust to the ship caps? It probably should do that since it's similar to the Ion Cannon with its instakill attacks.

[LordSloth]

Here's a silly idea. I much prefer just tweaking the timer as suggested, it has a simple elegance to it. Therefore, the following is only an idea, and a half-baked one at that. The idea below does have the advantage of using a different resource.

 Instead of an Exo-Galactic Strikeforce, just crib an idea from hybrids, and mobilize all (or some point value's worth of) the Mark X guardians in the galaxy. Before seizing the botnet, only MK1 Guardians mobilize. After seizing the planet, but before rebuilding, Mark II guardians can mobilize. Upon completion of the Botnet, the MK3 Guardians will mobilize. After that the usual timer/build count will start up, freeing up MKIV Guardians.

Alternatively, one planet's worth of guardian's piggyback on waves, one galaxy's worth of guardians piggyback on CPAs.

[TechSY730]

I'm fine with the reclaimation mechanic as is, though I am still of the opinion that zombie reclaimation should be tweaked to fit that (the scaling of multipliers based on mark differences, reclaimation damage tracked separately from main damage, etc). Then nerf the DPS of the botnet accordingly (basically, I'm thinking dividing its shot damage by whatever the multiplier for a Mk. V reclaimer firing on a Mk. III or Mk. IV ship is, haven't decided which one of those yet), but then letting it fire upon things that are reclaim immune (but with preference to reclaimable stuff), though you should probably give it a structural, command-grade, and turret multiplier of 0x to prevent too much cheese.

It would be a good way to nerf the botnet, but let it fire upon reclaim immune stuff without being OP. It would make it a less "one unit wonder", but more usable in the general case.

[kasnavada]

Another idea which could solve the problem is that the CPA for the Botnet Golem should come only if the Botnet was set online...

Oh so the "exo timer" would only charge up when the Botnet is online? Hm that sounds interesting. This would surely make Botnet Hard much more reasonable. I like this idea.
The question is how long could the Botnet be online before the exo got from 0% to 100%. 10 minutes.. 15 minutes.. 30 minutes?

I would have a specific "counter golem re-construction exo" starting around 2-3 minutes after the construction start, which aims at the golem specifically. I mean, the AI must know the potential of the thing, it makes sense if it decides that if it does not get the golem, it's rather have the botnet destroyed.

After that, regular exos like now.

[Cinth]

Also Cinth's objection sounds like the BNG does not adjust to the ship caps? It probably should do that since it's similar to the Ion Cannon with its instakill attacks.

My complaints with the Botnet:
The AI's response is a hard counter to the golem.  The golem can't contribute to the defense at all.
Zombie ships tend to stick around for the current fight, then populate my worlds.  They don't engage the AI at all.  I could crash the game if I spent time reclaiming zombies and flooding my backwater worlds.

[PokerChen]

Also Cinth's objection sounds like the BNG does not adjust to the ship caps? It probably should do that since it's similar to the Ion Cannon with its instakill attacks.

My complaints with the Botnet:
The AI's response is a hard counter to the golem.  The golem can't contribute to the defense at all.
Zombie ships tend to stick around for the current fight, then populate my worlds.  They don't engage the AI at all.  I could crash the game if I spent time reclaiming zombies and flooding my backwater worlds.

Personally, I control my zombie collection with a devourer golem. Eventually it notices the opportunity for a feast.

[Cinth]

Also Cinth's objection sounds like the BNG does not adjust to the ship caps? It probably should do that since it's similar to the Ion Cannon with its instakill attacks.

My complaints with the Botnet:
The AI's response is a hard counter to the golem.  The golem can't contribute to the defense at all.
Zombie ships tend to stick around for the current fight, then populate my worlds.  They don't engage the AI at all.  I could crash the game if I spent time reclaiming zombies and flooding my backwater worlds.

Personally, I control my zombie collection with a devourer golem. Eventually it notices the opportunity for a feast.

Lol.  I quit enabling Cookie when he gained true invincibility.

[Cyborg]

Sounds reclamation itself should be looked at. Of course that is its own can of worms.

I'm basically fine leaving it where it is unless reclamation cheese gets much more prevalent.

It's been around the block before.  It used to be brutally overpoweringly... well, OP.  Then it was nerfed in various ways, and eventually nerfed into the ground.  But that's not much fun, so eventually it was brought back up with the nanite-hopping mechanic and a few other things.

I'd rather it be fun and exploitable than just not fun, though mitigating the exploits would of course be nice.

This. Reclamation is fun.

[Kahuna]

The golem can't contribute to the defense at all.
Zombie ships tend to stick around for the current fight, then populate my worlds.  They don't engage the AI at all.  I could crash the game if I spent time reclaiming zombies and flooding my backwater worlds.

Redirect Posts.. nuff said.. *DDOS Launched*

EDIT: Check this out. I still have this old save file from one of my 10/10 games where I used this tactic. With the Redirect Posts I can control where the Zombies move. Here I set them to patrol and defend (V+Click) AS58, Patriarc's Conclusion and Chi Sampi. Most of the Zombies are there already but you can see how the rest of the Zombies move there and STAY there. Open the Galaxy Map and press A to see allies. Because of the Redirect Posts the Zombies don't stay very long on AS58 and Chi Sampi but you can increase the duration they stay on the "edge" planets by building Rally Posts on those planets. When I want to I can "open the flood gate" (redirect the Redirect Post in Chi Sampi (or AS58)). Very cool mechanic.