To streamline chokepoints

[chemical_art]

So chokepoints are the most efficent method of defense.

Long term, maybe this can be looked at. I say long term, because I doubt any consensus will be developed on how to tackle this.


However, I present an idea to help reduce the mathmatical "range" which map types can present. This won't necessarily be pretty, but it will reduce the desire for those maps which naturally encourage chokepoints.

This method would also address another problem. Once a player makes a chokepoint, for the most part that is the player empire. By necessity, any worlds outside the chokepoint are outposts. The AIP costs of ruining another group of chokepoints (around 15 AIP) is simply not worthwhile.

The idea:


A player constucted unit which causes an increase of AIP of several warp gates, which causes all waves to attack the planet it is on. If the wave is "triggered" when the unit is on a planet that normally cannot be attacked, it does nothing. It would have a cap of one. This unit can be moved, slowly, allowing new chokepoints as a player empire grows. It has a cap of 1, and cannot be transported, but is [perma]-cloaked

[chemical_art]

Alternative idea: A new command post that becomes warp inducer post, which in spirit does the same as the above idea: It encourages this above all targets to get a wave. It acts as the command structure slot.

Oh **** that sounds a lot more eloquent. But I want my chokepoints to always have a military command post 

[The Hunter]

I'd say no for various reasons. Mainly i don't really like idea of single chokepoint in first place, don't blame me but i honestly find it too lazy and unchallenging in my opinion(Buy ions, nine thousand forts, spire fleet, golems etc and place all on single planet, done), so i'd rather suggest instead give AI some ability to go around chokepoints, backdoor hacker has something like that, but i am thinking about something that any AI would use on higher difficulty levels, ofcourse it has to be balanced but i think it really could make a fun(and !!Fun!! in some cases) challenge.

[LaughingThesaurus]

I'm with the hunter. I'd rather help the AI get around choke points than make choke points even easier to set up.

[Martyn van Buren]

Hey out of curiosity am I right to think that chokepoints are a lot more challenging to set up on realistic map types?  I always play them and usually have a bit of a scramble for defense, but that might just be my bad strategy.

[Shrugging Khan]

AI special forces that sabotage the chokepoint by launching stealth raids against all supply-providing command stations at once.

[Zeyi]

I really think this would make the game too easy. There is at least some challenge in setting up a chokepoint, and if you don't have one available but can use a unit like this then it stops a lot of the AIs sneaky wave logic in determining which planets to hit.

I think if chokepoints are a real problem we should consider just adding logic that says if the AI has had to hit the same planet repeatedly it will randomly send some much stronger waves, perhaps based on the FP of the planet or give it the chance to go around the planet as mentioned above, but perhaps with a longer wave warning.  I believe Keith was talking about adding waves which send ships in pulses at a later date so perhaps he can take a look it at when he fiddles with that. As it sounded like he wanted to add some more spice to the normal waves anyway.

[Shrugging Khan]

That's also a nice idea; sending waves increasingly more rarely but with all the skipped waves' contents added together.

Might make for a nasty boom somewhere down the line

[The Hunter]

Another idea is to make AI add special 'siege' ships to waves if major chokepoint gets detected, that are specially effective at surviving and dealing with chokepoint but are not really effective at anything else. Maybe starting with just anti-structure ships like rams and then progressing to something like EMP if AIP/difficulty level is high enough. And yeah, stealth special waves sounds like an interesting idea as well, especially for some AI type like stealth master, haha.
Or another idea, give AI alternative MK2 version of carrier or something, especially designed to deliver ships through chokepoints.

[LordSloth]

...I think "Wave Interval" is already a feature.

That wave you see at your whipping boy? It's already increased and less frequent.

If I remember, one of the changes was to actual make that more consistent with regards to the number of points of ingress. Before then, it used to be hard to tell the difference depending on the rng, but now it should make a visible difference. This change was introduced by 6.000. There is still quite a lot of overlap... you can get big waves with four points of ingress, but the minimum bonus to size is a lot smaller. If you're not spending your Warp Gate AIP savings on an unnecessary planet, then you should see the difference. Thanks to the Military commands I did ...decently... but not great, at an early distributed defense, until I got tired of scrambling my fleet. Now, though, I do have core turrets to consider (but I've got Fallen Spire and a Stealth Master/Feeding Parasite opponents on currently.

[Diazo]

Hey out of curiosity am I right to think that chokepoints are a lot more challenging to set up on realistic map types?  I always play them and usually have a bit of a scramble for defense, but that might just be my bad strategy.

Very. I play realistic or lattice type maps and I usually don't even bother to try and set chokepoints up.

It makes dealing with exo-waves.... interesting to say the least. Which is part of the reason I do not enable exo-wave minor factions very often.

...I think "Wave Interval" is already a feature.

That wave you see at your whipping boy? It's already increased and less frequent.

If I remember, one of the changes was to actual make that more consistent with regards to the number of points of ingress. Before then, it used to be hard to tell the difference depending on the rng, but now it should make a visible difference. This change was introduced by 6.000. There is still quite a lot of overlap... you can get big waves with four points of ingress, but the minimum bonus to size is a lot smaller. If you're not spending your Warp Gate AIP savings on an unnecessary planet, then you should see the difference. Thanks to the Military commands I did ...decently... but not great, at an early distributed defense, until I got tired of scrambling my fleet. Now, though, I do have core turrets to consider (but I've got Fallen Spire and a Stealth Master/Feeding Parasite opponents on currently.

Yes, depending on the number of ingress points to your empire, the AI changes the timing on it's waves.  (Up to 4 ingress points I believe, might be 6.)

Note that the number of ships sent at you does not change over time, just the more ingress points you have the more frequent, but smaller, waves get sent at your empire. Note this does not affect CPAs, exo-waves, special forces, etc.

D.

[Tridus]

AI special forces that sabotage the chokepoint by launching stealth raids against all supply-providing command stations at once.

aka: Beachhead Plot?

[chemical_art]

AI special forces that sabotage the chokepoint by launching stealth raids against all supply-providing command stations at once.

aka: Beachhead Plot?

I think the lack of popularity of beachheads show that given the choice, more players wznt chokepoints.

[The Hunter]

I think the lack of popularity of beachheads show that given the choice, more players wznt chokepoints.

Or more like because they appear randomly without any logic, be it chokepoint or not. At least imo. Either way i'm planning to try them. AI War is supposed to be strategical game, not "dump everything into one spot" game.

[Tridus]

I think the lack of popularity of beachheads show that given the choice, more players wznt chokepoints.

Or more like because they appear randomly without any logic, be it chokepoint or not. At least imo. Either way i'm planning to try them. AI War is supposed to be strategical game, not "dump everything into one spot" game.

Chokepoints are strategic. They've been used in real life combat since forever. Being able to dictate where the battle is fought is a strategic advantage, Sun Tzu told us that.