Thoughts on Spirecraft

[Cyborg]

I agree on the comments except for the martyr. Keep that the way it is.

[Ranakastrasz]

I agree on the comments except for the martyr. Keep that the way it is.

Is this because you think they are balanced, the lowest tier having little trouble annilating high tier ships, Or is it because you know they are OP but still want to be able to use them at their silly OP level?

[Commiesalami]

No love for rams? 

I would like to know how the mechanics of how much damage a self-destructing unit (Ram, Minefield, Cutlass) takes so we can get a better idea for their ability to hit multiple targets.  I've been using a couple of MkI Rams to take the bite out of some exo-waves.  (Feels like I get better bang for my reptite asteroid than with siege towers, plus I'm always out of crystal for some reason) I'm wondering if upgrading to MkII wil have any real effect on cutting down exo-waves.  I've tried emperical testing but the few moments when a wave flys through a wormhole with rams hitting them is a little to chaotic for emperical data.

[Wanderer]

In appreciation of the testing done, I have to say Attritioners aren't BAD, they're just not powerful enough to risk asteroids on until you've built your siegecraft.  In a the two games I've played with spirecraft, I usually bring them along with my attack fleets.  They tend to help keep losses down.

Additionally, when used on heavy defense worlds, they help.  The problem is they don't help enough.  They just sit there, and are about as useful as a stack of Basic Is.  That is, they might help kill a few weak ships.  When you're getting Mk III/IV waves, the MK III/IV attritioner doesn't really matter anymore, they really only had enough fight in them to make a difference against MK I/II.

*shrugs* Then again, there's a reason I don't play with spirecraft on.  I'm not enthused by the units enough to make it feel worthy of dealing with additional exos.  A golem changes a battle.  A spirecraft just... meh, helps.  And martyrs are really the only unit I'd consider worthy of it but they're OP, and I get the equivalent sacraficing roughly the same price of core fleet to clear a wormhole.

[Cyborg]

I agree on the comments except for the martyr. Keep that the way it is.

Is this because you think they are balanced, the lowest tier having little trouble annilating high tier ships, Or is it because you know they are OP but still want to be able to use them at their silly OP level?

It's because they do their job exactly the way you think it should. I don't think they're overpowered all. They are one and done, expendable, and useful in a variety of situations. It's kind of how the children of neinzul could have been. And if you think they're overpowered, maybe you want to take autobombs out of the game also because they are the improved version of it.

The evolution of the idea of the kamikaze unit, went from autobombs->the children of neinzul->rams->martyrs.

If you nerf the martyr, you may as well go back to the children of neinzul and autobombs.

[TechSY730]

No love for rams? 

I would like to know how the mechanics of how much damage a self-destructing unit (Ram, Minefield, Cutlass) takes so we can get a better idea for their ability to hit multiple targets.  I've been using a couple of MkI Rams to take the bite out of some exo-waves.  (Feels like I get better bang for my reptite asteroid than with siege towers, plus I'm always out of crystal for some reason) I'm wondering if upgrading to MkII wil have any real effect on cutting down exo-waves.  I've tried emperical testing but the few moments when a wave flys through a wormhole with rams hitting them is a little to chaotic for emperical data.

Oh of course, how did I forget about the Rams.

Rams: If you need something big dead fast, and can't sneak a penetrator in (or you are on defense), rams are just the things for the job. Absurd damage, fast speed, awesome. My only complaint is that Mk. I is so powerful, there is rarely any need for higher marks. Only a few things would need the extra power of Mk. II. And there is VERY few units the AI has that can survive any sizable group of Mk. II rams. (Motherships, high Mk. hunter killers, high MK. AI forcefields, and the Avenger are the only things that I can think of)

And to answer your other question, there are two types of self-damage when damaging.
1. Self damage is proportional to damage inflicted. Some units with this mechanic include cutlasses and mines
2. Self damage always kills the unit doing the damage, reguardless of how much damage is inflicted. Things with this mechanic include rams, mini-rams, and Z autobombs.

[atomjack]

The thing you have to remember with Rams is the 0.001 hull type multiplier vs command-grade. I had a large exo-wave spawn with a HK mk V in the middle of it, but decided it wasn't a problem as I'd just send 10 or so assorted Rams at it and then mop up. They didn't even dent it.

After that, I've kept a cap of Penetrators in reserve - I know they're supposed to be offensive "first strike" ships, but they're absolutely fabulous on exo-wave defence instead. Goodbye HK!