Arcen Games

Games => AI War Classic => Topic started by: liq3 on August 23, 2009, 12:05:27 AM

Title: This AI is awesome.
Post by: liq3 on August 23, 2009, 12:05:27 AM
This is a thread about how awesome the AI is. Lets share stories about it here. :D I'll start.

Alright, I'm playing a game with PhonSiE. I'm assaulting the AI's planet, got a beach head set up, taken out the gate/comm station and I'm bringing in a colony ship. I start building my comm station, all is going well. Then I notice 2 Mark III Force Fields coming my way.

I laugh. I'm thinking "What are 2 puny force fields gonna do?". Boy was I wrong.

So, the force-fields slowly make their way to my comm station. I have no where near enough forces to kill them. Now, get this. They drive over my Comm Station... AND THEN THEY BRING IN ATTACKING UNITS. I was like "OMFG". The AI provided a shield for it's small amount of units (only like 6!) to kill my comm station. I was flabbergasted. Not only that, but they were blocking the wormhole, so I couldn't even retreat!

THEN while I was trying to get out, IT SENT A WAVE AT MY HOME STATION. I can't remember, but I think it may have even killed it. :(

This AI is just amazing.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Revenantus on August 23, 2009, 12:10:12 AM
Here's a screenshot from a game involving liq3, PhonSiE, Fiskbit, and myself. This is towards the end of a defense of PhonSiE's homeworld against a 5000 strong AI invasion force - we succeeded. Never have I had a much fun with an RTS as this game.

When Fiskbit asked me if I could test multiplayer with him earlier, I didn't expect to be up until 5 am. Totally worth it. :D

Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Fiskbit on August 23, 2009, 12:23:15 AM
Awesome, liq3. Did it intentionally block the wormhole, or was that a side effect of going at the command station? I'd love to see this as an actual tactic, if it only happened by chance.

Great story. :) I agree that it's been acting very clever in recently prereleases. Definitely impressive.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: liq3 on August 23, 2009, 12:24:30 AM
Awesome, liq3. Did it intentionally block the wormhole, or was that a side effect of going at the command station? I'd love to see this as an actual tactic, if it only happened by chance.

Great story. :) I agree that it's been acting very clever in recently prereleases. Definitely impressive.
I think it was a side effect of going at the command station, since I put them right next to wormholes.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Fiskbit on August 23, 2009, 12:29:33 AM
Rev and I took screenshots of the same thing within a minute of each other. :) I'm pretty amused by this. I also took one with the combat lines, since I thought it looked pretty epic.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: PhonSiE on August 23, 2009, 12:34:42 AM
I admit that this is the most fun I've had in any RTS game.

The AI is so dynamic that I could not predict what it was going to do next at almost any given time.  I think I attempted to build a base on the planet below me almost ten times.  When I thought I had it pretty well defended against maybe 1000 ships, there appeared a warning of a wave of over 5000 ships would present itself on this same planet.  No one could believe it.  While I watched this huge wave of ships came out of those wormholes, I knew I was done for.  The base I built on this planet was gone really quickly, because a majority of the wave were bombers.  Then they went for my home planet.  I was sure that I was going to die.  Somehow my allies managed to reach me in time with enough ships to counter the AI.  

The bombers reduced all my force fields to nothing, but for some reason they retreated when they could have easily annihilated me.  The other thing I noticed is that the ai mindlessly got stuck attacking harvester exo-shields with space planes and cruisers, which would take practically hours to destroy.  That also helped keep me alive.  Other than those two things, I think the AI is simply amazing and something I've never seen before.

Thanks for the game everyone.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on August 23, 2009, 03:13:18 AM
Hey PhonSiE, welcome to the forums!

I'm glad you guys are having such a great time, this is a really cool thread. 

I won't hijack it with discussions of potential future enhancements, but some of those changes such as reactions to force fields and how the AI prioritizes finishing off human players are still something I'm experimenting with a bit.  I'm overall happy with how it's working now, but there are a few key behaviorlets that I'm missing.  It's very difficult to "train" an emergent AI, so sometimes I have to read between the lines of the behaviorlets I've designed to see how they might combine into some behavior like the AI running away at a stupid time.  I'm just pleased it doesn't do that sort of thing more, haha, that's usually the problem with highly emergent AI systems.

Anyway, thanks for the thread, this is a real morale-booster. :)  I think this is a cool one to sticky.  Anyway, other than this I'll stay out of this thread and we can discuss AI improvements and such at more length in the suggestions forum.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: liq3 on August 23, 2009, 03:21:30 AM
Hey PhonSiE, welcome to the forums!

I'm glad you guys are having such a great time, this is a really cool thread. 

I won't hijack it with discussions of potential future enhancements, but some of those changes such as reactions to force fields and how the AI prioritizes finishing off human players are still something I'm experimenting with a bit.  I'm overall happy with how it's working now, but there are a few key behaviorlets that I'm missing.  It's very difficult to "train" an emergent AI, so sometimes I have to read between the lines of the behaviorlets I've designed to see how they might combine into some behavior like the AI running away at a stupid time.  I'm just pleased it doesn't do that sort of thing more, haha, that's usually the problem with highly emergent AI systems.

Anyway, thanks for the thread, this is a real morale-booster. :)  I think this is a cool one to sticky.  Anyway, other than this I'll stay out of this thread and we can discuss AI improvements and such at more length in the suggestions forum.
Cool, my thread got stickied.  :D

Well, too add to the morale boost, this is easily the best AI I've played in ANY RTS. I can remember a few others that come close, but they mostly played too perfectly, or too robotic.

Hrm, I must think of something cool the AI has done... Hrm.

Oh. This isn't that cool, but I remember one game where I loaded a save, and all of a sudden 700 ships came from an adjacent planet to take out a bunch of turrets I had parasited on one of the homeworlds. I was like "omg wtf o.O!" when that happened.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Echo35 on August 23, 2009, 09:25:08 AM
Well, too add to the morale boost, this is easily the best AI I've played in ANY RTS. I can remember a few others that come close, but they mostly played too perfectly, or too robotic.

Yes. Yes it is. Even playing with Random AI, I'm starting to be able to tell which AI I'm playing, simply because they're all so unique and have such specific play styles, and all very well done. Just as long as X uses it to make video games and doesn't work for a robotics lab or anything, the human race is safe  ;D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Mavvvy on September 04, 2009, 09:11:20 AM
This game is stocked with so much quality, and value for money its unreal.

Plus I'm convinced the ai in my game has become sentient and has taken over my computer as the clock on my bottom right had corner has turned into a Defcon meter. Skynet anyone?
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Revenantus on September 04, 2009, 01:01:39 PM
Plus I'm convinced the ai in my game has become sentient and has taken over my computer as the clock on my bottom right had corner has turned into a Defcon meter. Skynet anyone?

That's why the AI specifically can't use missiles. It's less of a design feature and more of a UN mandate - you can't be too careful.

Great to hear that you're enjoying the game! :)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Echo35 on September 05, 2009, 01:57:44 AM
This game is stocked with so much quality, and value for money its unreal.

Plus I'm convinced the ai in my game has become sentient and has taken over my computer as the clock on my bottom right had corner has turned into a Defcon meter. Skynet anyone?

Well see, my Hard Drive is formatted with NTFS, so all we have to do is hold out until the year 60056 and then the date range will run out and we'll be safe!
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: ldlework on September 23, 2009, 05:34:30 PM
I think the thing that affects the most about this AI is retaliation. Near the end-game CBWhiz and I were shoring up our assets to prepare to establish a beachhead on the planets adjacent to the AI home-worlds. We were consolidating our our forces and making sure all of our defenses were beefed up. We noticed that a few planets were mounting massive fleets on their planets but were otherwise docile. We figured this wouldn't last long and so to stifle any future problems these bulky planets might cause us while we were focusing on the enemy home-planets we decided to Post Raid the planets to prevent them from becoming any larger. The enemy planet had about 3500 Mark III units and an assortment of others. I generated a Cap-fleet of about 2k myself and sent them in, way-pointing the Posts, then way-pointing the wormhole. It was to be a quick raid and it was...

That is until the last Guard Post was destroyed and my fleet started to head back to our planets.... And the AI's units were following us. The massive AI fleet followed me - destroying each of our planets on the way all the way to my homeplanet where I successfully fended off the remains of the pursuing fleet. When my home-planet was finally cleared all I could think was a mix of "Holy fraking raptor jesus!" and "Oops!"


The AI's are vindictive heartless bastards. Prod with care.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on September 23, 2009, 06:51:24 PM
The AI's are vindictive heartless bastards. Prod with care.

:D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: darke on September 23, 2009, 08:54:53 PM
The AI's are vindictive heartless bastards. Prod with care.

:D

Personally I normally prod with Nukes or Lightning Missiles. What is this "care" weapon you are talking about?

On the other hand, taking out both a command center and gate on a planet full of ships with a lightning missile is great fun if you've worked out how to defend against the waves. :)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: liq3 on September 29, 2009, 04:16:45 PM
Alright, so some more crazy antics from the AI in a recent game.

Had a whole bunch of cruisers sitting near my home station. There was also a bunch of enemy cloaked ships somewhere, good 200 at least. And a wave of bombers heading towards home station. I quickly checked my defense, only to find out those cloaked ships were etherjets, and that they were making off with my cruisers in the opposite direction! I quickly ordered a flagship on a nearby planet to return home for defense. Thanks to some fancy trickery with repairing a shield I managed to wear the bombers down and survive!
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: nullspace on October 17, 2009, 07:23:33 PM
Thanks to some fancy trickery with repairing a shield I managed to wear the bombers down and survive!
Etherjets like to drag away my repairing engineers.   :'(
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: eRe4s3r on October 23, 2009, 12:51:48 AM
Thats better than them dragging away your science stations right through a wormhole to a IV core world.

I lost (blah ,p) today and saw several interesting antics of the AI as well - first of for the first time i saw what powerful strategy the ai has been given with retreats - i had about 200 infiltrators retreating after they shredded my defenses (i moved my fleet in, which luckily was right next door) but the next attack had double that amount and this time i lost my home command station before i even knew what hit me.

Also i had seen several ships retreating and coming back with support on my border worlds, it seems the ai is very good at judging when its pointless to stay. Needless to say this is the first and last time i play on a 20 planet map - Those are too confined and it seems the ai has even an advantage when its close and cuddly.

So yes, the ai is awesome... if you like loosing to it! ;) The ai is EVIL, thats what it is ;p
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Inglonias on October 23, 2009, 06:44:28 PM
They like destroying my bombers first if they have force fields in a system. I've even politely asked them to stop! What don't they understand about "Will you please stop destroying my bombers? I need to take down these force fields."?
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Echo35 on October 23, 2009, 08:58:03 PM
Thanks to some fancy trickery with repairing a shield I managed to wear the bombers down and survive!
Etherjets like to drag away my repairing engineers.   :'(

I love Etherjets when they're on my side. I ragequit when they aren't ;D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on October 23, 2009, 09:03:15 PM
Thanks to some fancy trickery with repairing a shield I managed to wear the bombers down and survive!
Etherjets like to drag away my repairing engineers.   :'(

I love Etherjets when they're on my side. I ragequit when they aren't ;D

I remember the day when I thought of the AI tactics for EtherJets, and programmed that in -- that was a happy day. :)  I was so pleased to then see the reactions of my alpha testers, who of course had no idea of the existence or real purpose of this ship, much like any new player.  We're playing along, and then some EtherJets come wandering in and grab their ships, and my uncle in particular was just like "Oh my god!  What's going on, they just grabbed my science lab and... where are they going!?"  That was a fun day of testing, mwahaha.

If you can't guess, I like being the DM whenever I play pen and paper RPGs, or games like Hero Quest or Descent: Journeys In The Dark.  My favorite thing to do is to push the heroes right to the brink of losing, and then see if they'll tip over on their own without my directly pushing them.  I think that came across here a bit, depending on the difficulty level.   ;D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Haagenti II on October 24, 2009, 03:05:19 AM
The dragging was nasty. The dragging to an SF Post was sickly evil.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on October 24, 2009, 09:08:58 AM
The dragging was nasty. The dragging to an SF Post was sickly evil.



Well, they had to go somewhere. ;)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Inglonias on October 24, 2009, 09:27:21 AM
I haven't seen Etherjets yet. I hope to god that I do. X4000: Tell the AI to STOP KILLING MY GODDAMN BOMBERS WITH SNIPER TURRETS!
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on October 24, 2009, 09:47:53 AM
I haven't seen Etherjets yet. I hope to god that I do. X4000: Tell the AI to STOP KILLING MY GODDAMN BOMBERS WITH SNIPER TURRETS!
On the plus side, that works for you in reverse. :)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Garrett on October 28, 2009, 07:12:27 PM
Hello x4000.

I wasn't sure about the game when I bought it. I was basicly just in dire need of distraction.
Now that I have played 10+ hours (Alone, though), I have something to say.


This game, or masterpiece is a one-man project, right?
One does not get that idea by playing the game.

What you have done by yourself is amazing. I don't know exactly how much time and energy you put into this, but it must have been alot.
The AI is the finest I've ever seen, and it constantly surprises me.
I love games like Total Annihilation, Supreme Commander, Pax Imperia - They are on a true strategic level, not on a tactical level like most RTS. I guess I'm quite good at them as well. I can't claim that I can beat any A.I, but I know perfectly well why I'm beaten if I do lose.
There are no surprises.

This... is different.

This is the one (strategy) game where I never feel safe.
No matter how strong my defense is, no matter how many ships I have, the A.I will -always- find a counter against it. It will always find a weak spot, a way trough.

I can be safe against the strongest ships in the game, and they will just send thousands of infiltrators just to destroy my economy.
It's mind-boggling. The A.I feels like it's really -thinking-.

x4000, or whatever your real name may be, you have done the finest job on any A.I in the history of games, at least in my opinion.
Not to forget that the rest of the game feels complete as well. The graphics are not 'on par with Crysis', but I always had a weakness for well done 'oldschool' graphics, and the units/structures look just like that. It complements the feel of the game.

Also, the music. It's great. It's oldschool. It brings back memories. Amazing.

Congratulations.

And of course, I will support you with buying the expansion, and spreading the word as well.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on October 28, 2009, 07:45:53 PM
Thanks Garrett, that's much appreciated.  :)

I'm glad you're enjoying the AI to that degree, it's one of my favorite parts, too.  For AI War, I'm the only designer and programmer on the game (I'm Chris Park, by the way), but the music is composed by Pablo Vega, and the art that you see in 2.0 is largely by Daniel Cook, Philippe Chabot, or Hans-Martin Portmann.

If you're curious about the team, you can see here:  http://www.arcengames.com/about.php (http://www.arcengames.com/about.php)

And if you're curious about the art and how all that came to be, that's here:  http://christophermpark.blogspot.com/2009/10/free-graphics-for-indie-developers.html (http://christophermpark.blogspot.com/2009/10/free-graphics-for-indie-developers.html)

Of course, even when I was working solo, I had my RTS playgroup (my alpha testers) to help with testing and they contributed a lot of ideas and critical feedback.  Then I had a larger team of beta testers, most notably featuring Lars Bull (Fiskbit here on the forums), who later joined the team to help with forum moderation, support, localization readiness, etc.  And then after release of the initial game, the player community has just been amazing and full of awesome suggestions and ideas, which I've been implementing over the 5 months since the game originally came out.  Calvin Southwood (Revenantus here) was one of the very prolific players with suggestions and ideas, and joined the team to help also with forum moderation and support, and to create the very nice user manual that you see in 2.0, among some other things.

So even with a "one man" project a game like this is never something that just takes one person even if it did start out that way.  But the AI and programming are my own innovations, so I'm quite pleased with how that in particular has turned out.

Thanks again for your support, and I'm glad you're enjoying the game!
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Garrett on October 28, 2009, 08:07:35 PM
Well the only people that wouldn't be able to enjoy this game are brain-dead numb-nuts that only strive for their next 10-Killstreak achievement forever being stuck in their nutshell of fun but not intelligent shooters, flinging immature insults at each other like apes fling poo.

Oh, did I say that out loud?  :o

Whoops. Watched too much Zero Punctation.

Hey, I enjoy CoD4, Duke Nukem 3D and will enjoy CoD6, but I just need my strategy games to encourage brain activity.
Ah well, you get what I'm saying.


Games are like music. You can stick to one genre, and it's fine if you don't like every genre, but shunning every other genre besides the one you like the best will just make you miss out on alot of great stuff.



Thanks for the link, now I know who's doing what.
Looks like you're one great team. You accomplished something.
Hope your sales are going well. You and your team deserve to be paid.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on October 28, 2009, 08:12:42 PM
Thanks, Garrett -- things are going pretty well for us with the recent 2.0 release and so forth.  I might even be able to quit the day job, come to that. :)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Garrett on October 28, 2009, 08:18:47 PM
Thanks, Garrett -- things are going pretty well for us with the recent 2.0 release and so forth.  I might even be able to quit the day job, come to that. :)

Now that would be excellent. Kind of the thing most of us dream of.
Hope it keeps on going well. Less time at your job means more time for A.I, so it's good for both sides.  ;D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on October 28, 2009, 08:20:27 PM
Thanks, Garrett -- things are going pretty well for us with the recent 2.0 release and so forth.  I might even be able to quit the day job, come to that. :)

Now that would be excellent. Kind of the thing most of us dream of.
Hope it keeps on going well. Less time at your job means more time for A.I, so it's good for both sides.  ;D

Yep -- more time for AI War, and more time for the other titles we have planned, too.  Lots of stuff in the pipeline, and I hope to get it out earlier than my projections (with a huge eye towards quality, making sure that everything gets the attention it needs).  But mainly, working one job instead of two will speed things up either way, compared to what it would have been.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Baleur on October 30, 2009, 11:25:16 PM
I'm still surprised how LITTLE attention this game gets..
You guys should put together a new trailer, focusing entirely on the strongest aspect, the AI (its in the title, after all).
Like a 5min video / trailer showing off how the AI thinks, reacts, and what it does. Even on a site with as many immature noobs as Gametrailers, it could generate huge sales by focusing on something that pretty much every other AAA title has failed at, the AI. I'm sure alot of people are willing to give up a bit of gfx, for an AI done right.

The problem is, and the reason i wasnt interested in this game until 2.0, was because most people (and i, back then) dont even know what makes this game special.
At first glance it does just appear to be one of the dozens of wannabe indie games, that utterly fails after a month or two. Thats because its not easy to portray AI or hour-after-hour gameplay strategy easily in a trailer.
Though as i said it should be attempted by you guys. Maby almost like a History Channel esque battlefield strategy walkthrough, but from the AI perspective.

Once people who dont know anything about this game other than some mediocre screenshots actually find out whats so great about it, they'll flock to it like they flocked to Galciv2, Sins or Sword of The Stars.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: SonicTitan on December 28, 2009, 11:54:19 PM
Just got schooled by the AI for the first time - not a loss, but a huge tactical error that couldn't have been anything other than deliberate.

The AI was amassing a 300 ship cross-planetary attack. I pulled most of my fleet back to my home planet and went on buffering defenses while I waited. Just as the timer went off, I saw that a base next door was being attacked by about ten ships. Like a nimrod, I throw my whole fleet into the wormhole, thinking that this is where the attack is coming from. I mop up the ships and that's that. Until 150 ships warp into my home planet and start shredding my defenses. Meanwhile my fleet is next door, as far away from the wormhole as I can get. I'm a little spooked, actually.

Speaking of all of this, is there any way we can see which wormhole cross-planet attacks are coming from, or do they not work that way?

Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Snowman on December 29, 2009, 06:12:17 AM
Hi Sonic Titan,

you have to research the advanced warp sensor. That will colour the wormhole, through which the attack will come, red.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: carlosjuero on December 29, 2009, 08:08:21 AM
Hi Sonic Titan,

you have to research the advanced warp sensor. That will colour the wormhole, through which the attack will come, red.

Hrm - I thought that wormholes connected to scouted enemy systems were already red? The sensor (when researched and built) makes the worm hole flash yellow from what I recall of a short 3 hour session last night.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on December 29, 2009, 10:28:34 AM
A bit of confusion here about Advanced Warp Sensors, I think.  Basically, they alert you to incoming waves only, not cross-planet attacks.  When zoomed in, the wormhole itself (not its text or icon) looks reddish instead of red when there is a warp coming through that location.  On the minimap, the wormhole blinks as whatever color it would already be.

With cross-planet attacks, here is a bunch of information on how those work, which is a bit different (and therefore not detectable by advanced warp sensors, since warp is not being used): http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Cross_Planet_Attacks (http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Cross_Planet_Attacks)

Hope that helps, and cool story, SonicTitan! :)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Rifleman on January 09, 2010, 03:34:34 PM
I was playing on 2001zl and a devourer golem got stuck on a planet with an advanced research station. I was thinking that I would never be able to capture the planet after that.

I was checking back and forth on it, and the turrets would knock the golem down to about 98% then some ships would attack and it would destroy them raising it's health back to 100%. After a while I checked again and more turrets were firing on it, and no ships were attacking it. After about a hour or so the AI finally destroyed it.

Their tactic wasn't working against it, so they changed up the plan.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: RCIX on January 10, 2010, 02:55:00 AM
Waaaaaay back (pre-2.0 days) i primarily used starships for conquest, before long any planet i came across was flooded with Anti-Starship Arachnids. Only minorly annoying, but still smart i suppose...
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: RCIX on January 14, 2010, 01:59:13 AM
Not purely an AI story, but:

2 turtles, ~160 AI progress. I got a boatload of goodies built on my gateway planet, so i want to get those built (if i can build them all i'm confident turrets could wipe out just about any size incoming ships). Problem? there's a rebel colony that appeared on a heavily armored IV planet along my path, and i'm not sure if i could build enough of my goodies let alone wipe out the command station on that planet in time. :(

I'll just have to let them die :(:(:(

Oh well, the I will be unstoppable when i get these goodies online! i could wipe out a mining golem in like 5 minutes with sufficient firepower or something :):):)
(Black hole machine, shield booster + inhibitor, radar jammer... the works)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Temper on January 14, 2010, 07:10:54 PM
This AI is awesome, and I was wondering if the Factions were as awesome as the AI?
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Minty on January 15, 2010, 06:25:25 PM
Temper, the Factions are more like little side quests or random encounters (From a roleplaying analogy), rather than whole additional chunks of AI.

The freedom fighters and marauders spawn ships that attack the AI or BOTH sides, respectively, sometimes to no effect, sometimes being a force to be reckoned with, depending on where and how many spawn.

The Rebel settlements spawn invisibly every few hours on a random planet, and give a countdown. Once the countdown's run out, if the player *doesn't* own the planet by that time, the invisibility's dismissed, and the AI is free to attack. Saving the settlement gives access to some truly evil ships, failing ups the AI progress by a hefty chunk.

There's various active golems too. From the trader, through the devourer which instakills virtually all mobile military ships in a wide radius, to the miner, which destroys whole PLANETS, as if a nuke went off, the Dyson Sphere, etc, etc..

Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: pierre dupon on January 27, 2010, 02:25:12 PM
I don't really have a story so much as a little tactic the AI developed against me. Basically they would send etherjets to the wormhole, drag a ship back onto their own world to get individually slaughtered by turrets. I first saw this and thought "why didn't I think of that?"  ;D
I love it when that happens, especially given that it probably wasn't programmed specifically to do that (was it?). Emergent behavior FTW!
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on January 27, 2010, 02:28:00 PM
I don't really have a story so much as a little tactic the AI developed against me. Basically they would send etherjets to the wormhole, drag a ship back onto their own world to get individually slaughtered by turrets. I first saw this and thought "why didn't I think of that?"  ;D
I love it when that happens, especially given that it probably wasn't programmed specifically to do that (was it?). Emergent behavior FTW!

That one happens to have been explicitly programmed by me, but it was always a favorite of mine. :)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Voodoomancer on February 05, 2010, 01:28:29 PM
The freedom fighters and marauders spawn ships that attack the AI or BOTH sides, respectively, sometimes to no effect, sometimes being a force to be reckoned with, depending on where and how many spawn.

The Rebel settlements spawn invisibly every few hours on a random planet, and give a countdown. Once the countdown's run out, if the player *doesn't* own the planet by that time, the invisibility's dismissed, and the AI is free to attack. Saving the settlement gives access to some truly evil ships, failing ups the AI progress by a hefty chunk.

Evil indeed. I was playing the other day, and liberated a rebel settlement. About 30 minutes later all the AI systems less than 6-7 jumps out where in ruins, as hundreds of rebel fighters and bombers had spread out and decimated most of the AI mobile military. Gave me an easy passage through some systems to assault a chokepoint lvl 4 system.

Marauders, on the other hand, are just mean, with exeptions. In that same game I was launching a strike on an AI planet with raptors, and I'd barely made it out of the wormhole when marauder buzz bombs came, well, buzzing in. So I had the raptors hang back cloaked and watched and laughed.
It's fun watching 2 of your enemies tear at each other, and then mob up the leftovers afterwards.  ;D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: RCIX on February 07, 2010, 10:04:45 PM
This is more of an "what was the AI thinking?" post. It just decided that it should send electric shuttles to me in a wave. 9 of them. lol...
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Minty on February 14, 2010, 09:53:38 PM
*Laughs at RCIX*

I've had waves as little as 25 ships, but never down into single figures before. What were you playing, AI level -15?  ;)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: RCIX on February 14, 2010, 11:11:17 PM
*Laughs at RCIX*

I've had waves as little as 25 ships, but never down into single figures before. What were you playing, AI level -15?  ;)
No, i think i had it at 7. That's what makes it so funny!
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Remagen on February 17, 2010, 04:08:50 PM
In my first 7/7 game, I expanded to a cluster in such a way that my core planets had only 2 entrances.

One was to the rest of the galaxy, the other led on a chain that ended next to the other entrance.  So, I figured I'd take that chain since I could use the resources and reduced frontage. 

A few hours later, I'm only 2 planets shy of my goal, my fleet is rebuilding for the final assault and I get a CPA notice. 

So, I pull my fleet back to the main entrance and leave some turrets at the rear, after destroying the warp gate in a misguided tactic.

Fast forward 10 minutes, and 1k+ ships slam into my meager forces at the rear system and I barely beat them back after losing 3 or 4 planets.

/Schooled by the AI
Also, the AI has consistently attacked my rear entrance, as it is currently the weakest, I really need to reinforce it.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: HJFudge on February 24, 2010, 09:50:05 PM
The AI is pretty ruthless.

I've been playing about a month now, and am suitably impressed by the methods the AI tries to conquer me! (And usually succeeds). Its mainly just simple, little things too but those simple, little things make all the difference.

Several times in my most recent game I've had the trader travel through and I've tried to build a Zenith Power Generator.

EVERY TIME, and I've tried this 3 times on 3 different planets, the last was even in a planet I thought 'safe', the AI sends a wave, and the raiders and some escort ships go to start blowin up their normal, expected targets like metal and crystal deposits, etc. and I'm not too sure but I think the bombers, all 100+ of them, come in right behind them AFTER all my forces have begun chasing the raiders and such and go blow up my building power generator (and often the command station of the planet as well  :o )

The way the AI can use its units in differing ways, adapting to the situation, gives it a totally different feeling than any other strategy game I've played.

So Kudos to you!
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: vonduus on February 25, 2010, 04:55:06 AM
The AI is pretty ruthless.

...the bombers, all 100+ of them, come in right behind them AFTER all my forces have begun chasing the raiders and such and go blow up my building power generator

I have been wondering some time now how other people manage to keep their Zenith Power Generator alive. In all my games so far I have lost it in the way you describe. This ai may be just as stupid as all other ais, but it really hides its stupidity well.

It even uses its own bugs against you: I had a case with dancing on the spot, some ships could not decide if they wanted to attack me or run away through the nearest foxhole. I thought: "Ha, the indecision bug" and went after a blob of ships in the other end of the star system. Whereupon the dancing ships stopped dancing and went for my Zenith construction site. I almost lost the whole game.

So yes, kudos to arcen for making this fine piece of seemingly sentient software.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: HellishFiend on February 25, 2010, 05:21:28 AM

I have been wondering some time now how other people manage to keep their Zenith Power Generator alive.

- Never build one from a Trader on a frontline planet. Always wait till it visits one of your planets deeper in your territory.
- If capturing one, destroy all adjacent special forces posts and warp gates PRIOR to building a command station on the planet
OR
- Use a warp jammer command station

 :)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: vonduus on February 25, 2010, 05:27:42 AM
Great, thanks HellishFiend, I shall try out your suggestions as soon as I get home from here. :)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: IRANianCha0s on March 05, 2010, 03:07:46 AM
I want to say here and now, Chris Park, you and the rest of the team at Arcen have done a phenomenal job creating AI War. I'm impressed by how advanced the AI is, and how most of the development (obviously excluding art/music) was a one-man effort on your part, Chris. There's much more I'd like to positively rant about, but I'll leave it that to avoid clutter. I don't want to sound like a fanboy, I just have a lot of unbiased respect for what you've done.  :D



Anyways, I have been learning the value of making good defense grids + exo-forcefields, after witnessing raiders warp in and eat my harvesters too many times (until recently I had let my ally build most turrets). Worst mistake we ever made: our fleet had bunkered up with forcefields in front of a gate we would attack soon, and we had a nuke ready to send in. While it was on the way to the gate, AI sends in a fairly large group. One white flash later and oh wait a minute where did our ships go... >:(
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on March 05, 2010, 02:37:39 PM
Yea, the Nuke description should include a line stating "Warning: incautious positioning of this device may result in injury or death.  Mostly death."
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Kryzite on March 13, 2010, 03:13:33 PM
Just wanted to pop in and express my opinion, not only is you're AI great but I honestly wish more developers from other companies would show the same devotion you guys at Arcen show here on the boards by being responsive, and actually listening to your fan base. Keep up the good work!

~Kryzite
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on March 13, 2010, 03:59:39 PM
Many thanks for your support in return! :)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Mánagarmr on March 14, 2010, 09:44:58 AM
The AI just taught me the importance of protecting ALL wormholes, no matter how inconspicous the planet looks. My home planet had three exits: Two fairly uninteresting Mark I planets (albeit one with 4/4 resources. Made that high prio) and one Mark IV (ugh).

So well, I put up a massive  turret blob around the Mark IV wormhole and massed a fleet in front of the 4/4 planet in preparation to take it, but left the other largely unguarded. A few turrets in range, but those were more for the mark IV. The AI attempted to attack from the Mark IV once and sent a few ships from 4/4, but in the end, he kept sending Raptors and Minipods through the unguarded hole, waited until he had a few, and went on a harvester rampage.

I ended up having no resources because he constantly killed my harvesters. That hole is now balled too, with a tachydrone. Guess what? He now sneaks the ships in via one of the other wormholes.

I hate this AI. And I love it. Godawful, evil thing.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Rod Serling on March 14, 2010, 10:34:40 AM
It's my opinion that the AI isn't really that great.

Don't get me wrong, I love this game and have bought two copies myself, and enjoy the hell out of it... but...

The AI, in most cases is mostly predictable, but not in the way most game AI are predictable.
The AI of this game are predictable in the sense that 100% of the time, they are unpredictable.

You can never assume they wont attack from somewhere.
You can never assume they wont try to run away, but in the attempt simply blaze past your defenses into your unprotected core.

The only guarantees you have against the AI is:
If there is no warp gate, in an adjacent sector, there will be no warp-gate based attacks from there, conversely, if there is a warp gate, you will get a warp-gate based attack from there (eventually).
Special forces and random wanderers can still pass through your systems, even if no adjacent systems have Special Forces guard posts. (Same with trains)
If an enemy AI unit is not dead, then it poses a threat to everything in the system it is currently in, regardless of it's current course of action.

So, to beat the AI, you simply have to:
Cover ALL hostile wormholes.
Allow NO survivors past your defenses.

That said, it's not an easy task. Good luck ;]
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: RCIX on March 15, 2010, 03:03:59 AM
It's my opinion that the AI isn't really that great.
Hmm. Let me try and convince you otherwise :)

The AI, in most cases is mostly predictable, but not in the way most game AI are predictable.
The AI of this game are predictable in the sense that 100% of the time, they are unpredictable.
This is its greatest strength. If you know where it's going to attack, then it's predictable. If it's predictable, then you can hit the AI where it hurts and do a better job of defending. If you can do that, then the challenge greatly falls. If it greatly falls, then you don't have a good AI.

See, you want the AI to be able to poke you at you most vulnerable point in order to  suprise you and hit you hard, because your most vulneraboe point is often one you're not expecting an attack at. Attacking in weak spots is sommething you'd expect any good player to do :)

So, to beat the AI, you simply have to:
Cover ALL hostile wormholes.
Allow NO survivors past your defenses.
And this is where it gets hard: you need to maintain a good enough defense everywhere, but there's not enough turrets/FFs/etc. to do so (trust me , i know) on qa decent number of worlds. Thus, you must both pick and choose your targets, and also make sure that you can properly defend your important stuff. Otherwise, the ai will find a weak spot (as it's oh so good at doing) and poke it just a little to hard for your comfort :)

This has happened to me: i left a spec ops post in one system, and every time i tried to take it it would send a wave through that post which had a nasty side effect of blitzing the station. Needless to say, i took it out but not after it did a good number on that spot a couple of times :)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Rod Serling on March 15, 2010, 09:25:10 AM
Hmm. Let me try and convince you otherwise :)

As long as this remains good-spirited fun, I'll bite ;]

This is its greatest strength. If you know where it's going to attack, then it's predictable. If it's predictable, then you can hit the AI where it hurts and do a better job of defending. If you can do that, then the challenge greatly falls. If it greatly falls, then you don't have a good AI.

Agreed, and that's why I suggested an option to remove the wave announcement.

http://arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,4336.0.html


See, you want the AI to be able to poke you at you most vulnerable point in order to  suprise you and hit you hard, because your most vulneraboe point is often one you're not expecting an attack at. Attacking in weak spots is sommething you'd expect any good player to do :)

Yes, but the AI doesn't specifically choose a weak spot. Instead, the AI likes to randomly choose to pick every spot, over a long enough time period. A weak spot is not intentionally exploited by the AI, it's simply eventually hit. A good player wouldn't always bash a good amount of units over your time-and-tried proven strong spots. AI does.

See the attached picture for system name references. In this game, against 2 Vicious Raider 7's, I quickly cleared out Manchester and Gaia. I colonized Manchester almost right away, but left Gaia alone. Sigma-19 (My home planet) had defenses at both wormholes, and Manchester had defenses at the Gaia and Chisos wormholes.  My weak point was an attack on Sigma-19 through Gaia.

This never happened. The enemy will 100% of the time send a wave directly into your system, before sending them across an empty sector to hit you.

This is predictable. Later, as I was clearing out Cella Dor, Sigma-13, and Dover, all of the backwash hit Manchester, not Sigma-19. Why? The Wormhole from Cella Dor was much closer to Manchester, rather than Sigma-19. Sigma-19 didn't get hit through Gaia until the command post at Manchester fell due to vampires.

Point of all this, even this AI can be forced through a "Hole in the wall" rather than the actual weak spot. This AI just has more random factors, and more units to throw, but this doesn't mean the intelligence cannot be bested. Most of the "Hard" factor is the sheer number of enemies, and the fact that they will hit any sector next to theirs, rather than just any one per given circumstance.

And this is where it gets hard: you need to maintain a good enough defense everywhere, but there's not enough turrets/FFs/etc. to do so (trust me , i know) on qa decent number of worlds. Thus, you must both pick and choose your targets, and also make sure that you can properly defend your important stuff. Otherwise, the ai will find a weak spot (as it's oh so good at doing) and poke it just a little to hard for your comfort :)

I agree 100% on the importance of defending only what you can defend. "He who tries to defend everything, defends nothing" or something like that applies as well. The most important part of any defense is proper strategic positioning. In that example, one of my biggest priorities is to capture and hold Maine. I can then literally funnel every attack into one position. Even then, my Home world is not without turrets. The other sectors are generally undefended simply because they will need no defense. Everything there can be rebuilt, but my Home world can't.

-----
Map Planet names taken from the game "Freelancer" PM me if you want a copy of altplanetnames.txt
-----


Edit: P.S. a CPA did throw quite a few units at my weak spot, so I'll give it that ;]
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on March 15, 2010, 09:42:28 AM
Yes, but the AI doesn't specifically choose a weak spot. Instead, the AI likes to randomly choose to pick every spot, over a long enough time period. A weak spot is not intentionally exploited by the AI, it's simply eventually hit. A good player wouldn't always bash a good amount of units over your time-and-tried proven strong spots. AI does.
Yea, at one point Chris actually gave it some degree of memory of "this wormhole has been really bad for me in the past" to encourage use of other paths to the player, but that was removed, iirc due to the "gap in the wall" problem emerging.

Quote
This never happened. The enemy will 100% of the time send a wave directly into your system, before sending them across an empty sector to hit you.
Ah, yes, it will always do that *for waves* if you own a planet adjacent to a warp gate.  If you actually destroy all the warp gates adjacent to planets owned by you, it will spawn them at some random nearby warp gate (without warning of which planet) and move them via normal drive into your territory.  This is generally actually much harder to defend than just leaving one warp gate.

Quote
Point of all this, even this AI can be forced through a "Hole in the wall" rather than the actual weak spot.
Yes, that is an intentional aspect of the warp gate mechanic.  There's a lot of strategy in reducing your external graph edges and picking which warp gates to leave alive. 

I suppose we could have an AI modifier that would basically have it always warp the ships to a nearby warpgate and move normally, which would be pretty similar to the proposed "only CPAs" option.  That would be a fairly different game experience, but that may be more what you (and some others) would prefer, at least for some games.

By the way, have you run into a Cross Planet Attack yet?  That's where the AI rounds up a bunch of already-existing ships (often in the 1000s) and just throws them at you through whatever path(s) it feels like at the time.  It's ended more than one seemingly-going-well game ;)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Rod Serling on March 15, 2010, 09:53:44 AM
Ah, yes, it will always do that *for waves* if you own a planet adjacent to a warp gate.  If you actually destroy all the warp gates adjacent to planets owned by you, it will spawn them at some random nearby warp gate (without warning of which planet) and move them via normal drive into your territory.  This is generally actually much harder to defend than just leaving one warp gate.

Actually, I think it might be a good idea to allow a mix of these in through neutral territory. Allow the AI to attack in waves both directly against a planet, and through a possibly limited number of "Neutral" territories. It's a suggestion at least.

http://arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,4345.new.html

By the way, have you run into a Cross Planet Attack yet?  That's where the AI rounds up a bunch of already-existing ships (often in the 1000s) and just throws them at you through whatever path(s) it feels like at the time.  It's ended more than one seemingly-going-well game ;)

You probably missed the edit, but yes, I got hit by a CPA eventually, and it threw quite a few ships at my "Weak Spot". Thankfully, my "Weak Spot" was strong enough to hold them off... with some fleet support ;]
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on March 15, 2010, 10:59:20 AM
Well, I think you may be surprised at how painful these are, but I think they're valid as alternate game modes, and could provide some excitement, to say the least.

For 3.084:

-Added new AI modifier: No Wave Warnings, which simply causes the normal wave timers to not be shown.  The total number of ships in incoming waves is still shown.  This can greatly increase the challenge of the game and should be used with caution.

-Added new AI modifier: Cross Planet Waves, which causes all AI waves to spawn on an AI planet and travel across normal space rather than spawning at one of your wormholes.  This is the logic normally used when there are no warp gates adjacent to a human-controlled planet.  This can greatly increase the challenge of the game and should be used with caution.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: drum on March 15, 2010, 12:15:45 PM
Hi!

i have to agree that the ai is 'awesome' to play against, even though I've only been playing the full game a couple of weeks and am basically crap at it, it is great fun! also, these forums are amazing, i've played a few games that claim to have ongoing player driven development but rarely is it anything less than a dev team playing dictators, thats certainly not the case here :)

that said, it strikes me as a bit strange that on one hand the ai is ruthless and unpredicable, but on the other it makes no effort to retake lost planets... does anyone else think this? it just seems like they are just waiting to be pummelled into nothing.. maybe I'm not playing on high enough difficulty or something.

maybe if the ai was to occasionally build some kind of colony ship that they can use to re-establish control over an unclaimed system it would add a new dimension to gameplay.

anyway thanks for making a great game, and for being so open to input.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on March 15, 2010, 01:48:32 PM
i've played a few games that claim to have ongoing player driven development but rarely is it anything less than a dev team playing dictators, thats certainly not the case here :)
Oh, Chris is the dictator, he's just very benevolent ;)  He's also set up the code &etc such that it is very easy to modify; it's also much easier as C# rather than a language requiring explicit memory management (like C++).

Quote
that said, it strikes me as a bit strange that on one hand the ai is ruthless and unpredicable, but on the other it makes no effort to retake lost planets... does anyone else think this? it just seems like they are just waiting to be pummelled into nothing.. maybe I'm not playing on high enough difficulty or something.

maybe if the ai was to occasionally build some kind of colony ship that they can use to re-establish control over an unclaimed system it would add a new dimension to gameplay.
It does seem that thematically speaking it would reclaim systems.  The problem is that there is a permanent cost to the human player (in the form of AI progress) for "clearing" an AI system, and having the potential to need to reclaim a system could be difficult to balance with that cost.

But it would be possible to add a mechanic by which the AI could reclaim a planet; perhaps through a mining-golem-like situation.  It would need to be fairly rare and give plenty of warning to the player so they would have a chance to defend their 20 AIP "investment".
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: drum on March 15, 2010, 03:10:27 PM
It would need to be fairly rare and give plenty of warning to the player so they would have a chance to defend their 20 AIP "investment".

oh yes for sure.. i think a combination of difficulty level, ai progress, ai type and planets lost would increase the chance of it, and there would need to be i think a series of warning signs that can be picked up on by scouts etc before getting a formal warning that a planet is going to be retaken....

maybe it would play out like this:

ai progress and planet losses reaches the point that the ai starts to build their 'colony ship' at their core. if you have a scout at that core, you would recieve an alert, and if you're brave enough you can send a raid to take it out. if you dont want to raid the next option is to wait for the colony ship to start its journey and assault it at a less well defended place.

once the colony ship is complete the ai will start reinforcing the planet they wish to colonise, not only could you notice this if you have left a scout in the right place, but there could be a chance that some of those reinforcements decide to go out into your space and cause a little trouble- you might think its just the usual spec forces or whatever, or you may decide to take a look at where they came from.

of course the ai colony ship would travel very slowly, allowing a large force to build up to defend it on its arrival- maybe it even has an escort that forms a defensive barrier, meaning that whilst a core raid to destroy it is risky, there is a certain increased difficulty when taking it out en route

once at the target planet, thats when you would get a formal warning and countdown so you would need to move fast(er) depending on the difficulty level to take it out.

it would need a timer so the ai doesnt spam i expect, and of course an option to not have it at all when i find out its too hard for me hahaha

plenty of opportunity to stop the ai retaking a system, thus protecting your aip investment, but also a big punishing stick for not paying attention to your enemy!


aaaaand, Chris is a dictator? oh dear, he must be waiting till he has enough followers to start the oppression, run for the hills everyone!!
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Mánagarmr on April 25, 2010, 05:18:40 AM
Grr, just got schooled by the AI again. I was playing a No Wave Announcement/CPA Wave type of game against two lvl 7s. One Grav Driller and one Special Forces captain. I was defending my starting system pretty well and was just building up a proper fleet and hit the neighboring Mk I system for some resources (really no interesting systems nearby, except for this 4/4).

As I was mopping up that system (which of course had a grav drill), I get hit with occasional waves through the wormholes. Nothing I can't handle. Then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, the "Command Station is under attack" sound. What the? I then see it's my HOME Command station.

You'd think I'd notice if a giant fleet came into my homesystem, mangled all my turrets, tractors, spider turrets and my force field no? Well see the AI didn't like my defences, so he figured my defences lacked in one area: Tachyons. I looked back at my planet only to see the last 3% of my Home station trickle away to a fleet of 50+ Eyebots.

Important lesson learned :(
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: SmileyFace on April 25, 2010, 07:41:12 AM
Ouch... I've almost had that happen. Thought I had a great home system defence, then suddenly clouds of ships were decloaking at my home station! That sure taught me the importance of tachyons and gathering enemy intel, too!
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: KingIsaacLinksr on April 30, 2010, 04:57:11 AM
Surprised my story hasn't been posted yet.  Some time ago (week, maybe two), Moonshine Fox and I were playing against lvl 7 AIs I believe.  (He would know, I was a complete newb having been my first real AI War game then).  We were doing fine against the AI, actually, too good really.  We had setup an optimal defense but had made an interesting tactical decision to conquer an entire constellation of planets just north of our bases.  The AI soon fell apart.  This gave us an incredibly nice setup of energy and materials, despite a mining Golem shooting at a Mark 3/4 homework right in the middle of the whole dang show.  Since I was in no condition to send a fleet (AI had really hurt me), Fox decided to commit a 1200 ship fleet to destroying that thing before it blew up the planet.  We knew the AI progress would be too great.  However, here is the trick of the whole matter.  One of the AIs had a turn on for using Black Hole Machines.  (The ones that stop you from using wormholes once you enter, name escapes me).  So unless we were willing to siege about 6 systems, it would be a suicide fleet.  Using some craft and dangerous maneuverer which blew my mind a bit, Fox had managed to get about 85% of the fleet there with his Zenith Bombardment Ships intact.  Only slight problem is that the mining Golem was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy out there.  So it took forever for his fleet to get into range.  It was soon destroyed.  Then the AI decided to dick with us at just that moment and send a wide spread planet attack of about a thousand ships.  I was able to deal with them.  

I then decided that the online Zenith Power Generator needed a use.  I just happened to control a system with a Broken Black Widow Golem.  Greedily, of course, I built it.  This was soon a mistake amongst other things.  

We then found the Dyson homeworld.  And Fox decided that it was the greatest idea to liberate them from the evil tyranny of the mighty AI.  (How the AI was controlling them with a single command station is a little beyond me  ;D)  Using a basically sucide run of Raid Starships, we blew up said command center.  Then, the worst happened.  It just so happened that the AI had a Mark 4 Raid engine on a nearby planet.  Whoop whoop went the sounds of our doom.  We then tried to nuke the planet.  

Worst.   Plan.   Ever.  

Not only was the AI really pissed off, it sends 1000+ Core ships to destroy us.  Idk how many assaulted our fleet outside the world that was nuked, but it was enough to destroy both our fleets including the Golem, Spire and Zenith starships, dreads, Mark 4 ships and etc.  The dysons were of little help and seemed to mock us as system after system fell to the rage of the horde.  To say that we were screwed, would be accurate.  We had no way to rebuild the fleet in time to counter a 1000 Core fleet.  It took system after system.  We just watched, horrified as all our hard work went to tiny bits.  

So yeah.  We learned a very, very important lesson(s):

Don't piss the AI off.  It hurts.  

I've had a lot of fun with AI War, best fun with an RTS ever.  Sadly, this AI is going to spoil me on any other AI these "intelligent big boy company Devs" will ever come up with.  :(  But then again, why need another game eh eh?  Thanks for the fun now and in the future!


(Oh and yeah, was a bit bored and wanted to write something, this is the fruit of said writing).  
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: superking on April 30, 2010, 06:28:07 AM
awesome story  :)

it does seem like your reason for taking down the mining golem- saving AIP- might be somewhat undone by repairing the golem (that was probably also responsible for such a huge counterattack with its wave multiplier) and nuking a planet
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Mánagarmr on April 30, 2010, 08:49:49 AM
awesome story  :)

it does seem like your reason for taking down the mining golem- saving AIP- might be somewhat undone by repairing the golem (that was probably also responsible for such a huge counterattack with its wave multiplier) and nuking a planet
Taking down the Mining Golem was at a vital point where we were trying to conserve AIP, the liberation of the Dyson sphere was simply because it was only two jumps from one of the AI homeworlds, thus able to assist us massively in the siege of that planet. Only problem was that none of us had unlocked higher level scouts, and we (I) forgot to scout the Mark IV next to the Dyson planet. I figured the Dysons could easily handle everything the Mark IV would throw at them. Problem was it had a Raid Engine. It kept hammering the Dyson system with massive Mark IV mixed waves and we were starting to take a beating. We tried to attack the Mark IV to take the Raid Engine out and failed miserably several times.

This is where we started to get desperate. The Raid Engine planet was permanently on alert due to the liberated Dyson system next door, and it was both reinforcing heavily in addition to sending us difficult waves. In order to have any chance of attacking the Core World behind the Mark IV, we needed that Raid Engine dead. Hence the nuke plan (after all, we were going to hit a homeworld short after). However, after nuking the Mark IV, the AI launched a CPA that almost took us out, in addition to sending a massive fleet of Core ships our way. We now stood with no strength to follow up the nuked world, and a homeworld on alert.

We had no way to win there (high AIP progress just made things worse). We slammed our heads on the fortress that was the homeworld, but we eventually gave up. It was a REALLY good game, but lack of scouting really lost it for us. Good lesson, if nothing else ;)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: danando on May 03, 2010, 12:57:05 PM
i must say, the AI is one of the best i have seen  :) mayb 1st place in my AI quality :D:D:D they split there forces up into 4 divisions and flanked me haha
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Goekhan on May 13, 2010, 04:28:05 AM
Just wanted to pop in and express my opinion, not only is you're AI great but I honestly wish more developers from other companies would show the same devotion you guys at Arcen show here on the boards by being responsive, and actually listening to your fan base. Keep up the good work!

~Kryzite

Yeah, I wish the same. There are several companies that I like.

DICE: For "still" supporting games on PC very much even though they are console ports...
Bioware & Obsidian Entertainment: For keeping RPGs alive, and shooing & shoving console gamers aside (mostly)...
Hi-Rez: For doing a remarkable job with Global Agenda...

Arcen: For blending in with the community & taking their suggestions into consideration, non-stop work, free DLCs (every new ship, turret etc means DLC in my vocabulary, as some companies know how to add 3-5 things (maps, "cough"MW2"cough") and charge 10-15 bucks for a pile of bullshit)

And ALL other indie developers: For having balls to try new things, instead of making same type of games over and over and over (EA killed many titles, remember. it's unusual, it's different, it's a new thing - this means possible money loss to many publishers)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Thumpy on May 26, 2010, 04:34:32 PM
hello! first post but been reading for a while. have downloaded ai war from steam two weeks ago. not sure where to put this, but this thread seems the most appropriate. i love this game. i LOVE this game. and this is down primarily to the AI. it's nothing short but amazing. you realize it's good when you stop thinking about it as an AI and instead get immersed into fighting a brilliant opponent. can't really explain this, i know nothing bout programming, i just know it's the most fun i ever had in strategy games. overall the game design is so inventive and corrects most of the flaws i have with other games of this type. this game  is probably the most amazing achievement in real time strategy to date. and now i think about it, first when i installed the demo, i was just about to uninstall it, too many aspects initially didn't appeal to me, but now even those aspects are vital to the greatness of this game. it's not a casual game, but it's the most rewarding experience when you spend time with it.

ok, sorry.. that was enough praise. but i just wanted to thank everyone involved for two weeks of brilliant fun playing this game. and hopefully many more to come :)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on May 26, 2010, 04:35:31 PM
Glad you're enjoying it, welcome to the forums :)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on May 26, 2010, 04:37:28 PM
Like Keith said, many thanks and also welcome! :)

If you're curious about the internals of the AI, you might enjoy the articles on that in the articles section of the forum.  The first one in a series of 6ish articles is written more for non-programmers than for programmers, others are more programmer-y but still accessible.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: rubikscube on May 26, 2010, 06:25:59 PM
poot turrets next to command station and mobile military
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Thumpy on May 28, 2010, 12:38:50 PM
wow, a reply from the programmer himself? :)

anyway, one question: should i spend more time mastering ai war or would you suggest immediately going for the expansion? does the game get much more complicated with the zenith remnant? or would you say it's enhancing the overall experience of the game? is the expansion featuring even better AI? are the updates for the expansion as well? or how do you handle this? sorry to use this thread, i will definitely buy it sooner than later anyway.

english ain't my native language, sorry
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on May 28, 2010, 12:46:06 PM
My pleasure. :)

Regarding the expansion versus the base game, that is really up to you -- there is a lot more content to master in the expansion, but since the game is about discovery and exploration, that's not so much an issue as it might otherwise be.  The core experience is basically the same in the expansion, except that there are way more options and more things to run into.  If you have played Civ IV, it would be like if they doubled the size of the tech tree there, or something along those lines.  It's more, sure, but if you know how to play Civ IV then that's not an overwhelming thing.

For details on exactly what's new in the expansion: http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_The_Zenith_Remnant (http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_The_Zenith_Remnant)

With games in the past, I've done it both ways, starting with just the base game for like a half year and then going to the expansion(s), or having the expansions right from the start.  Just depends on the game, I guess, and I could see it going either way.

The expansion doesn't include any updates to the AI, for this reason: http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Expansions_Vs_Free_DLC (http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Expansions_Vs_Free_DLC)  Basically, we don't want people to have to buy the expansion just to get better AI.  We're always making improvements and updates to the AI, but that comes out as part of the free DLC for everyone, not hidden behind a paywall.  That said, the AI does have some weapons in the expansion that it does not have in the base game, so that's something to note.

All of the updates for the game are for the base game and the expansion (we use a unified binary (http://gamingdead.com/2009/12/09/interview-chris-park-of-arcen-games-talks-ai-war-indie-strategy-and-post-launch-support) approach that makes this easy), so no matter how many expansions there ever are, all of the core updates are for the base game plus every expansion.

Thanks for your support!
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Ktoff on May 28, 2010, 01:43:43 PM
Hey Thumpy,

the expansion brings a lot to the game and gets more complicated in one respect: There are vastly more different ship types that can be in a game (though the number of ship types in any one specific game stays the same, meaning in one game there are parasites and teleport raiders and in the next there are zenith mirrors (expansion only) and tanks). The gameplay stays more or less the same, even if there are more different capturablse on the planets.

If you breezed through the intermediate tutorial moning how complicated everythign is, start without the expansion with simple ship selection to grasp the basics, if you did alright... go for the expansion, it is a lot of fun!

Letztendlich bleibt es dir überlassen. Die Komplexität wächst mit der Erweiterung nicht extrem stark, du hast halt nur mehr verschiedene Gründe einzelne Planeten einzunehmen (oder nicht einzunehmen).

Cheers,
KToff
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: danando on May 28, 2010, 01:48:09 PM
i must admit thumpy if it makes you decide that playing ai war W/o expansion was great but with golems and many other features on the expansion it made the game one in a million ;) golems are ...well....golems lol BIG AND POWERFUL just like they are meant to be though they do use excessive energy and high repair count but they last through games mayb even to the end, plus new cheats which i never use but they are cool in times of need. basically the expansion is what its there for... to make the game experience better.
my opinion? ai war is better with the expansion :) i bought the expansion hoping that i regret buying it but it was indeed the opposite  :P  ;D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Thumpy on May 31, 2010, 04:12:45 PM
thanks everyone! it's much appreciated. as soon i have finished that 80 planet map on diff 7 i will download it! and as it looks, that will be sooner than later. my plan to get my greedy hands on that advanced research station was maybe a bit too optimistic :(

this AI is just brilliant. this game is just brilliant. good lord!
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: superking on May 31, 2010, 07:06:40 PM
the expansion makes the game about a zillion times more awesome  ;D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: soMe_RandoM on July 01, 2010, 02:21:08 AM
i have few seeds where I've been abused by ai using golm black widow defeating my ships at my home planet then went away then i was picked off by few ships eg anti armor. or raptors. is this an oddity or yust an rare occurance or is it not spose to happen only with golmmite ai  type? it was with an easy ai type like turtle for exsample, ill post save or seed with ai types + starting pos + settings>?
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on July 01, 2010, 08:30:39 AM
That was a bug in a couple of beta versions during a 2-3 day window a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: J a s o n on July 18, 2010, 04:12:21 PM
Well... where do I begin?    :-\

I'm COMPLETELY new to this forums thing (yeah, I never replied in any forum), but I have been eyeballing at this one for a long time even though I have been playing for like 198 hours (Steam actually clocked it). However, I just keep restarting the game because of a bad habit ("perfection is everything") I've gotten from some other game other than AI War, so I'm NOT uber-awesome at the game. Anyway, I kept thinking about dropping in, but I am VERY SHY :-[ about it and couldn't find a suitable spot to actually start off up until I found this topic, which is not serious, but a fun topic. I keep hearing that this community is actually pretty friendly in general, and from all the stuff I read in these forums, the rumors are true.

My first impression of this game was, "Awesome ships! Looks interesting, too!" when I saw the screenshots and THANK GOODNESS there IS a demo. Tried the demo, it was a blast! Been looking for a strategy game where building fast and rushing doesn't really help all the time, instead good strategy and tactics in general and other stuff I didn't mention leads to success. I think everybody hears this all the time about the game in these forums, but... this game is amazing... just amazing. I never played a strategy game for as many as 198 hours before. Also, heard the community is heavily involved as well with the ideas and all. So my thanks goes to the developers and the community for backing them up!

Thank you for an awesome game everyone!  8)

I actually do have my share of the AI in this game acting evil as well, but this one also involves the AI using Etherjets. However, my situation was a TOTAL MISHAP. Well, first I started off with level 1 AI after completing all tutorials, it was just too easy and boring (the level 1 AI anyways, but I found the tutorial mildly fun.) Then I started at level 3, which is where I should have just stuck with until beating the AI at that difficulty! However, I quickly moved to level 7, denying that I needed any practice (and being that I'm a... semi-masochist? I'm guessing it's like a masochist, but not quite  :P ).

Anyway, I was trying out level 7 and felt like knowledge raiding. However, I wanted to do this without any combat ships protecting them. I got the Cloaker Starship mk1 and plus I got a Transport because I didn't want to wait for them to travel and some other reason which I will mention, shortly. Plus, I had like 5 Science Labs mk1 and at the time the cloaking field was very very small until an update, so I had to compress those 5 labs into one somehow, which was ACTUALLY how the transport got involved. What I did after I came up with the plan was pretty dumb though. I did everything as planned, but for some reason I traveled away from the wormhole I came from... like "opposite-from-it" away. Also, the transport shouldn't have to be involved, what was I thinking?! I could've just... have the Cloaker Starship warp in first and just simply float over the wormhole or next to it at least, THEN send in the science labs one by one, keeping them all safe. This was even right at the start of the game. Well, anyways, it gets baaaad from here: I let them moved far away from my wormhole, have the transport dump all 5 science labs and.... great, some of them are outside the cloaking field! Enemy Snipers fired at them, but to deflect those shots I send them back inside the transport. When all was safe I repeated the same mistake, once or twice more. Then, I'm like... "Okay, AI, you want to play rough? Well, in your face 'cause I'm bringing in a mobile builder and build Counter-Snipers to deflect those shots! YEAH MAN, YOU TRY AND TOP THAT!!!" (by the way, this was before the Cloaker Starship had the ability to deflect sniper bullets). Anyways I did that. Right when the Mobile Builder warped in, I pause the game, build the counter-sniper (and... I think I sent a few combat ships to protect it). When the counter-sniper was finally built, I dumped all my science labs and ordered them into the cloaking zone and -- WHAT ON EARTH IS -- err... WHAT IN SPACE IS THIS  :o !? The Etherjets just appeared RIGHT NEXT TO THE AREA where my Cloaker Starship and Transport is and right after I let loose the Science Labs, those blasted Ether Jets just drags them off to there doom -- they were actually waiting for me to do that (at least it seems that way)! Yeah, and to make it worst, they were beyond saving, because they warped deeper into their territory. And to put the cherry on top, they threw in a couple of punch lines...

AI 2: How stupid do you think we are?
AI 1: Bah... pitiful humans...

 >:( . . .

I'm just kidding, they didn't say that at the climax of the mishap. They didn't say anything... but it'd be funny if they did at that moment, but oh well. You know what, maybe they didn't say anything because they're just laughing so hard. Or maybe because what I did was so "stupid" and "pitiful" (quoting the AI comments) that they didn't even have to express it with words. Yeah, watching those Ether Jets just APPEAR right next to them was just enough. At that moment, I couldn't decide if I should get mad or laugh... but now the choice is obvious!  :D

Well, that's the end of the story, and it's a pleasure for me just writing what I remember what happened at the time.   ;D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: superking on July 18, 2010, 07:29:32 PM
Ether Jets make for some great FUUUUUU moments, like when you have just spent all your resources building a huge fleet of expensive zenith bombards only for the AI to nap them with jets and carry them to a nearby MKIV world for instadeath
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: J a s o n on July 18, 2010, 09:28:53 PM
Yeah man. Ether Jets... gotta admit those AI sure know how to use em, basically dragging their key targets to the guillotine for execution.

I had this other moment where all I had was just my home planet and waaaay too light defenses. I was doing pretty bad (and I mean... BAAAD) and I think the AI was level 7 again. This time they just send in a wave at the best moment.

Well, I was just exploring with scouts and ran into a Dyson Sphere, my very first sighting of it (except one time I used a cheat just to see what certain ships look like in-game) and my first impression of the Dyson Sphere was,"Whooaaa... cooooool!". Then out came the Dyson Gatlings, I actually think they look pretty cool, honestly.  I wish they had Dyson Chainsaws though... yeah, man! Cut those starships in half! EEEERRRRREEEERRRRRRRRRGGGH!!! Sorry, I'm just cuttin' up... heh... "cuttin' up". Just kidding around, in other words :P.

Well, I found a Dyson Sphere, so I'm like,"Sweet, now I can have space alien friends!". So I blew up the AI Command Center there.. A few Dyson Gatlings escaped, still programmed to annihilate BOTH me and the AI. Guess the Zenith cannot reprogram their older Dyson Gatlings, but it's cool... adds to the challenge. As I watch those Dyson Gatlings ripping through the lines of planets, I was just laughing at the AI getting blown up...

Soon... the jokes on me.

I then noticed a Dyson Gattling was already attacking my Home Planet (this is sad, I haven't captured a planet even though it's close to an hour into the game). Then, it gets from sad to tragic. As I'm trying to fend off the hard-to-kill Dyson Gatlings (3 of them) with my very... very... few ships (like 100 total) and my defenses are just waaaay too few, like I said before. Then the AI decides to "conveniently" send a wave from the nearest wormhole to my Home Command Center which was like an inch away if I zoomed out my camera completely...

I knew I was gonna lose.

However, being a masochist... err semi-masochist whatever, I welcomed it, because I was doing so bad in that game, but I never give up without a fight, either. So I just fought to the death making my last stand. The AI warped in like ants emerging from their subterranean abode and attacked, then there I go... my Home Command Station got shot down out of orbit, and I plummeted onto the planet like a meteor  :'(.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on July 19, 2010, 09:34:29 AM
Welcome to the forums, Jason! I'm glad you decided to join in! I enjoyed reading your tales of the etherjets, thanks for that. In the base game, when I had the idea to code that behavior into the ai that quickly became my favorite thing the ai did. I can still remember he first time I was playing with my alpha testers over voice chat, and that behavior was new. There was a wave of etherjets incoming, which made me smile. But none of the others knew what was coming. I about died laughing when my uncle, over voice chat, was like "what? What are they doing? Come back with my stuff! Hey, those are my science labs! They took them through the wormhole!? Come back with my stuff!".

Good times, good times. :)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Dragon on July 19, 2010, 12:12:05 PM
Yeah, I do agree that etherjets are just about the most awesome unit the AI has.  I have trouble using them right though....  Maybe it's just because the AI doesn't really have much that can be tractored that is important.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on July 19, 2010, 12:39:37 PM
Well, I like to use them defensively myself, honestly -- it's great for having impromptu tractor beam fields, I really like that.  But yeah, offensively the AI has much better opportunities than the humans for that sort of thing.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Dragon on July 19, 2010, 06:55:31 PM
How do I make them activate their tractor beams?
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: RCIX on July 19, 2010, 07:23:39 PM
How do I make them activate their tractor beams?
They'll do it automatically turn it on when coming into short range of an enemy ship; only problem is that on FRD, they don't drag units back to their FRD point ::)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: superking on July 20, 2010, 07:06:50 AM
How do I make them activate their tractor beams?
They'll do it automatically turn it on when coming into short range of an enemy ship; only problem is that on FRD, they don't drag units back to their FRD point ::)

chriiiiiiiiiiissss  ;D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: soMe_RandoM on August 06, 2010, 03:58:34 AM
AI Doom is awesome they hardly in game (I'm currently in) never ever send Ai waves to any of my planet they store them and wait till they get up to the 1,000 then the split forces into attack forces of 250 then attack multiple planets :D they are just awesome. but anything lower than 7-9.5 they do send the waves to the planet and 6 is just an disappointment D: i might be wrong with 7-9.5 but i haven't tested it with this current map :D but it still awesome
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on August 06, 2010, 08:27:21 AM
Yea, anything less than 7 is mostly just for beginners or to counterbalance some insane other piece of challenge :) 

But are you saying that only Diff 10 gives you a challenge? ;)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: soMe_RandoM on August 06, 2010, 10:47:50 PM
once i get double godlike + double Paragon (same time) as it will show when it achieved XD well once that over and done i wont waste time earning (unless i already got achievement then ill use lower ai) than 9. for multilayer ill play with AI i have won against unless other want to vs 1-2 DOOM AI but i I try a lot of maps to see setup stage before 1st wave and see how well i go before i even lose i quit LOLs much easier to quit then wait for defeat as if all else fails trying to defeat an ai in an game is just unplug computer.  

EDIT: rebel colony need my help thus time to spam lightning missiles to clear out those nasty 300 core ships waiting on other side. edit: well i saved the rebel colony with 20 mins left so i decided to use my transports carrying as an distraction as they hold my engi and colony. then when all the SFC units where outside the planet i then wait till it got destroyed and place command station on the other side :D with engi i set up mrk 4 HB Cannon before they even came back then i moved most of my HB cannon to the SFC Planet i am currently on. 12 HL C after and now i can keep this system indefinably FYI building those rebal ships behind enemy sometimes splits there forces so half are attacking HB C where they destroy.

wow 3 mining golem have taken 3 useless AI planets that have a lot of ions one of AI useless planets has 4 crystal :D that not worth it as i could take planet with 11 stuff on it :D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Jesterman on September 14, 2010, 11:31:01 AM
I've started noticing some somewhat sad bits of predictability in the AI.
for one, if a planet has an ion cannon, the Ai will pretty much always attack it first. This creates a bit of too easy of a choke point/distracion.

I can simply slap down a lvl 1 ion cannon, put alll sorts of defenses around it, and as long as it doesnt die, the whole system is safe.

Dont you think the AI should be able to circumvent this exploit?
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Lancefighter on September 14, 2010, 12:05:25 PM
let me get this straight - you have a system so important, you placed a very good deal of resources down to protect it (mk1 ion is 200km and 200kc..  PLUS any other defenses... ) and your complaining that it defends too well?

Allow me to put it this way - Thats not an exploit, thats a playing doing good strategic thinking.


Also, once the AI hits mk2, things get interesting.  :D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on September 14, 2010, 12:06:42 PM
Well, the AI should probably have a more nuanced reaction to those kinds of irreplaceable buildings.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: superking on September 14, 2010, 05:01:11 PM
yeah, the mass driver 'damage spounge' tactic is a serious exploit
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Jesterman on September 18, 2010, 08:42:20 AM
let me get this straight - you have a system so important, you placed a very good deal of resources down to protect it (mk1 ion is 200km and 200kc..  PLUS any other defenses... ) and your complaining that it defends too well?

Allow me to put it this way - Thats not an exploit, thats a playing doing good strategic thinking.


Also, once the AI hits mk2, things get interesting.  :D

To clarify, it attacks the cannon, not the planet.
Meaning, you could have your economy for that planet completely unguarded while an ion cannon or mass driver is bristling with defenses. the ai will ignore EVERYTHING to attack only the ion cannon. I think this should be fixed.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Lancefighter on September 18, 2010, 10:45:28 AM
ok lets put it the other way.

You are a giant galactic empire ruler who currently has a thorn in his side. You decide to attack x planet of this rebel insurgency.

It has a giant gun that kills each of your units with one shot. Destroying this gun will make the planet considerably easy to retake.
It has a bunch of resources, that will do minor indirect damage to the insurgency. They do not decrease defenses, nor anything of import.
It has a command station, which probably is the only thing in the system to provide scout intel, but thats more or less the only thing it does.


Which target do you choose?
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on September 18, 2010, 10:54:12 AM
Well, it depends; if you've only got a medium force and that ion cannon is defended by the "Turret Ball of Doom +3", the other targets may make more sense ;)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Lancefighter on September 18, 2010, 11:15:08 AM
well, maybe uh, you should make that so kieth?  ;D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on September 18, 2010, 11:23:01 AM
I did mention before that I thought the irreplaceable-priority logic needed a bit more nuance ;)  Nothing complicated, possibly just a random factor so they don't always get stuck on one thing and there's still a point to the damage-sponge tactic (which is mostly valid, imo, as long as it doesn't result in a total gap-in-the-wall).
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Lancefighter on September 18, 2010, 11:27:31 AM
would it be possible to set something like area-based-modifiers?

for instance, a turret might slightly decrease the priority of everything nearby it, or a forcefield might do similarly perhaps.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on September 18, 2010, 11:28:39 AM
There's already logic that estimates the strength of units near something, etc.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Lancefighter on September 18, 2010, 11:30:54 AM
oh. Maybe it should be more profound, if a turret ball of doom +3 isnt enough to deter it...
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on September 18, 2010, 11:32:43 AM
Normally it does count, iirc.  I'm thinking that currently it's just being overridden by the "this is an irreplaceable structure" logic.  Often this is desirable, but it shouldn't be quite so asymptotic.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Lancefighter on September 18, 2010, 11:41:32 AM
odd, because me as a player does the same logic checks..

ill see something irreplaceable, and attempt to blow it up.. multiple times with fails, if i must.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on September 18, 2010, 12:57:21 PM
Normally it does count, iirc.  I'm thinking that currently it's just being overridden by the "this is an irreplaceable structure" logic.  Often this is desirable, but it shouldn't be quite so asymptotic.

This is exactly right.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Jesterman on September 19, 2010, 03:51:59 PM
Normally it does count, iirc.  I'm thinking that currently it's just being overridden by the "this is an irreplaceable structure" logic.  Often this is desirable, but it shouldn't be quite so asymptotic.

This is exactly right.

So is it safe to assume that this might be changed soon?
As it stands, its a total 'gap in wall' situation. it bottlenecks the bottleneck.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Dragon on September 19, 2010, 10:08:07 PM
ok lets put it the other way.

You are a giant galactic empire ruler who currently has a thorn in his side. You decide to attack x planet of this rebel insurgency.

It has a giant gun that kills each of your units with one shot. Destroying this gun will make the planet considerably easy to retake.
It has a bunch of resources, that will do minor indirect damage to the insurgency. They do not decrease defenses, nor anything of import.
It has a command station, which probably is the only thing in the system to provide scout intel, but thats more or less the only thing it does.


Which target do you choose?


Well, if I'm attacking with mark III or IV ships, and their giant gun is a mark I ion cannon, I think I would ignore it.  But the AI doesn't....
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Lancefighter on September 20, 2010, 12:43:46 AM
well, a mk1 ion cannon wouldnt be quite the same

the question would have to become a mk5 ion cannon that costs you nothing to destroy*

*I'm talking opportunity cost here - as in, you could not capture it or reclaim it for resources*
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: superking on September 20, 2010, 08:20:44 AM
shouldnt the command center be higher priority than an ion cannon or mass driver? if the planet is isolated, killing the command center removes supply from most defences, prevents defences being rebuilt and prevents reinforcements from spaceports.

agree w/ AI units should ignore ion cannons of lower mark than themselves.

I dont know much about how this sort of thing is done, but how about only allowing the AI units to attack ion cannons/mass drivers if it can simultanously order x number of units to do so (ie, the minimal number realistically needed to destroy it in timely fashion)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Dragon on September 22, 2010, 12:49:18 AM
well, a mk1 ion cannon wouldnt be quite the same

the question would have to become a mk5 ion cannon that costs you nothing to destroy*

*I'm talking opportunity cost here - as in, you could not capture it or reclaim it for resources*

Yes, but the AI treats a mark 1 ion the same as a mark 5.  Even if it is attacking with mark 4 ships, it will go for the mark I ion cannon first, before anything else.  Which is silly for it to do.  If it was attacking with ships that the ion cannon could destroy, I could see it making sense that it targets the ion cannon first.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Lancefighter on September 22, 2010, 01:30:27 AM
The AI is currently busy with a galaxy wide glitch that screws with its targeting priorities. However, it is currently in the process of upgrading to Unity mk4, and all its resources are diverted to that conversion.

Please document the issue as best as possible so that once resources are available, your query can be resolved.

Thank  you, and have a nice day.
 ;)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on September 22, 2010, 08:54:58 AM
The AI is currently busy with a galaxy wide glitch that screws with its targeting priorities.
Please maintain your present speed and course, and an associate will be along to destroy you shortly.  Thank you :) </sing-song-voice>
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: vonduus on September 24, 2010, 09:37:32 AM
I get a little nervous, when I read this thread. The fact that the ai prioritizes ion cannons is actually something that I rely quite a lot on, I tend to build my whole home defence structure on this fact. So obviously this is one of the things that I hope Keith will not change. Not right now, that is, I have so very little time to play these days, and I'd rather spend this time trying to figure out how to use my new ships and/or outwit the new threats. Next year, perhaps ;)

Btw, I believe the present behavior is a result of some earlier adjustments that succesfully minimized 'dancing' behavior.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: superking on September 24, 2010, 05:56:09 PM
I get a little nervous, when I read this thread. The fact that the ai prioritizes ion cannons is actually something that I rely quite a lot on, I tend to build my whole home defence structure on this fact.

I spy with my little eye a classic hole in the wall  :P
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Salamander on October 19, 2010, 10:23:47 PM
I really like the AI in the game, especially when compared to other RTS games. Even basic things like telling a group to attack target x and instead of ignoring things attacking them while en-route while target x is out of range, they shoot at them! I know other games have things like attack-move, but it's nice that it works here automatically like that.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: cukeaddict on November 05, 2010, 01:28:35 AM
I once tried playing with the Neinzul Preservation Wardens on... the AI watched how the Neinzul's tractor-beam-immune ships could run around all my planets unchecked, then got some raiders and kept killing my outer planets.  A few hours into the game it decides to do a Cross-Planet attack with 1500 ships, and because I failed at saving my economy from the Neinzul I couldn't make enough turrets to protect myself... and then it insults me as it takes out every world but my home planet, which somehow survived.  Needless to say, after that there was no way I could even manage to attack one of the AI core worlds, so I ragequit.

Haven't run into the etherjets yet, but that would most definitely enrage me.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on November 05, 2010, 06:46:04 AM
Why so much rage?  Losing is part of becoming a better player, and ultimately winning.  I get mad with a game when it's boring and the same every time, and the AI doesn't put up a fight.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: zebramatt on November 05, 2010, 07:50:24 AM
It's tedium which makes me angriest with games. Like if you die and have to restart from just before an unskipable cut scene, that sort of thing.

Well, that and two-hit kills from full health in Monster Hunter.

But neither would make me rage quit. Even things like that just inspire me to come back fighting. Maybe that's simply the way my mind works, though!
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on November 05, 2010, 08:15:14 AM
Yeah, multipile big bosses in a row with no savepoints in between are the thing that perhaps make me maddest/weariest.  By the time you figure out the last boss, you've played them all so many times you don't ever want to see them again.  It's a real impediment for my being inclined to finish most RPGs, since the final boss is often that way.

Anyway, digression... ;)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: cukeaddict on November 05, 2010, 05:35:59 PM
Why so much rage?  Losing is part of becoming a better player, and ultimately winning.  I get mad with a game when it's boring and the same every time, and the AI doesn't put up a fight.

Rage is just part of the fun and generally makes me keep going instead of quit.  For example, the first time I encountered Neinzul Cockroaches with translocation, they made me angry which is why I enjoyed destroying them.  So it's not ragequitting all the time, it's a reaction almost as if the enemy was real and I just wanted to obliterate them.  That particular game where I quit, I quit because I had only my half-dead homeworld left and couldn't secure any other planets because of a lack of energy to power my fleet, which was already woefully outclassed.

The AI is awesome because it can make you rage, which is something I have never encountered before.  For example, Starcraft 2 has a very predictable AI:  it never rushes you or changes its strategy, whereas AI war is built around a computer opponent that isn't just a cakewalk.

Latest game I have turned the difficulty down and... it masses 400 ships each on 3 worlds near some of my key borders, so I decide to swing by one of those garrisons after I take an ARS, which results in 300 losses for me and a 2-pronged counter-attack that destroys all of my science labs before I know what happened.  A couple hours have passed in that campaign and now the AI is tempting me with 600-700 ships on another border world, just waiting for my fleet to wander too far away or attack out of fear and trigger my doom.

I think it's great that the AI can exploit human emotions since it gives them a strategic and tactical advantage when I focus on the thing that makes me mad instead of the critical objectives.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: HellishFiend on November 05, 2010, 09:22:52 PM
Obligatory:
(http://media.steampowered.com/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/08/088b958cdce0c54a198e4695b42ef84a0d957bb0_full.jpg)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on November 08, 2010, 08:32:10 AM
I gotcha. :)  As long as the rage is fun, then...! ;)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: lovekawakawaii on November 22, 2010, 06:17:16 PM
EMP guardian is pretty tough just lost to it. Nice work
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Vinraith on November 22, 2010, 06:34:07 PM
The AI in my present game has discovered that it can use tractor platforms to drag my ships deep into its territory, triggering lots of hostility from said worlds. It's best trick, and the one that ended said game for us, was when it dragged some ships back to an AI homeworld with a core CPA post. Ouch.  ;D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: orzelek on November 22, 2010, 06:43:09 PM
EMP guardians are a surprise ones.. usually quite painful one. My ass got saved by few starships that weren't paralyzed.

Any AI unit that can tractor can and will produce the "drag to my planet" behavior. They like it :D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Vinraith on November 22, 2010, 06:50:56 PM
EMP guardians are a surprise ones.. usually quite painful one. My ass got saved by few starships that weren't paralyzed.

Any AI unit that can tractor can and will produce the "drag to my planet" behavior. They like it :D

Yup, I'd just never seen it on quite this grand a scale.  ;D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Echo35 on December 02, 2010, 01:37:22 PM
I was playing in the Library today while waiting for my next class to start. The AI threw a moderately sized wave at me, which I defeated. Soon after the Emergency Alarms went off in the Library and we had to evacuate the building. I think the AI is a sore loser.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on December 02, 2010, 01:40:18 PM
I think the AI is a sore loser.
Yea, I'd keep a close eye on any electronic equipment, if I were you ;)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on December 02, 2010, 05:02:39 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: shortstar on December 03, 2010, 03:38:05 PM
First time poster, long time lurker. :D So I was out to fight the good fight and was playing a 7.3difx2 on random easier. Things were going south from the start, and expansion is realllllly slow this game for some reason after my update to >4.0.21. Tied down (I thought) three planets directly connected to mine after about 5 hours, and raided the command centers in another three systems. I was just getting ready to run more colony ships out to the new homes I had found. Home base was set up well with a nest of turrets of mixed build. Just started to rebuild my losses and then poof, here they come.

Ai(1) raid some 247 frigates(iii).....due to my popping a guard post. no biggie...clock on that ticks down to about 3 min, then
Cross planet attack of 547 ships. ooohkay ai progress is about 75, seems a bit much... I can handle that.
30 seconds later, warning goes for 148 fighters on the other end of the little empire I'm tossing together.

so about 1k ships vs my 500 man mark1 fleet. hmmm cant divide the fleet, so it goes to my home planet. 1 min to go and I have a fighting retreat set up, and fully intend to lose my outposts. Then I guess what are special forces start wormholeing in to my outer planets. only about 200 of em, and not part of the waves.  I split my cutlasses and send them to engage while the rest of the fleet waits between the wormholes to the other planets at my homeworld. once the cutlasses were dead, the snipers finished off what they started and the first wave comes in.......... from BEHIND my defenses... like off the end of the map(wasn't expecting that). I send in the fleet and put the shipyardsx3 into overdrive with engineers back at the homeworld. I take about 75% losses on that fight, but weaken them enough I should be safe from that side.

Fleet goes back to homeworld, while I let the rest of those m3 wave ships slowboat around and kill off what structures are left over there. As my fleet jets off to the other side, I pick up reinforcements and my attention now switches to the other front. Fleet is up to about 60% strength but I take my starships with me this time and kick some butt on that front and take losses to to about 45% strengh, then I head back to the homeworld again.

But what is this.... a brownout.... ohhhh noooooooo, the power plants.... the turrets..... I switch on the backup mk2 plants I built at my homeworld, but I'm still short on power. I turn off anything not directly related to me staying alive when those 500 cross planet guys come in and get net power up to about 5k. Before I could do said task, they start pouring through my turned off tractors and a speed boost train comes in at the same time.

I did manage to save myself, and most of my homeworld. I primaryed the speed train and got the tractors back on line. The turrets did their thing and they dropped like flies.

Moral of the story is no matter what you do, the AI is stronger and faster. They dont feel bad about sending ships to their death. I thought my homeworld defense was uberstout, and it was, so the ai turned off the lightswitch. I'm still playing the same game now, and the AI has fought me tooth and nail for every inch of ground. It seems it knows what I am doing, and it found my weaknesses. It's probably reading this right now.....
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Pathalone on December 05, 2010, 10:47:12 PM
Just got the game Friday. Had a 80 system game going and had won 15 or so systems. I got smug and was plinking on number 16 when wtf?! I lost 2 systems in 1-2 minutes. The AI had counter-attacked, taken those out and moving to the next. Never had that happen in an previous RTS that I can remember. Humble pie tastes awful! Oh, did I mention this was on easy (#1)?

Amazing game! I'll get the two expansions once I get paid Friday.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: snelg on December 06, 2010, 05:16:17 PM
...  I split my cutlasses and send them to engage while the rest of the fleet waits between the wormholes to the other planets at my homeworld. once the cutlasses were dead, the snipers finished off what they started and the first wave comes in.......... from BEHIND my defenses... like off the end of the map(wasn't expecting that). I send in the fleet and put the shipyardsx3 into overdrive with engineers back at the homeworld. I take about 75% losses on that fight, but weaken them enough I should be safe from that side.
The counter attacks from the guard posts seem to always come in from the "map edge". I had a very similar first experience with those.   :(
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Echo35 on December 06, 2010, 07:48:21 PM
...  I split my cutlasses and send them to engage while the rest of the fleet waits between the wormholes to the other planets at my homeworld. once the cutlasses were dead, the snipers finished off what they started and the first wave comes in.......... from BEHIND my defenses... like off the end of the map(wasn't expecting that). I send in the fleet and put the shipyardsx3 into overdrive with engineers back at the homeworld. I take about 75% losses on that fight, but weaken them enough I should be safe from that side.
The counter attacks from the guard posts seem to always come in from the "map edge". I had a very similar first experience with those.   :(

Me too. Pretty sure the counter attack guard posts only sub space. I've had them run attacks against planets in the center of my alliance with no hostile wormholes, but they can still sub space :P
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Entrenched Homperson on January 20, 2011, 11:12:05 AM
Hey all! New poster here. So, I am tinkering with the options to find a play style I like. Go with epic speeds because my play style as an RTS lover is alot micromanagement, even though you guys want to minimize that >< I still find that quick troop movements and taking and giving defensive postitions and such are where a sate my strategy cravings. I chose Cross Planet Waves, misunderstanding the tooltip a little bit. I thought this meant that no attacks where gonna come to planets that didn't have a hostile wormhole on them.

BOY Was I wrong!

All of a sudden on low ship count I get 1800 Ships inbound to a random star system, so I split my fleet, putting half my tank units in different places, Zenith starships and bombers, at my 2 fronts which where about 4 hops away from each other. I'm shaking in my boots at this point and use all the extra power I havent found a use for yet to build a full cap of Fortresses, as I normaly havent been unlocking Mark II Forts.

The enemies arrived in my Homeworld, and my other forces scuttled to reinforce it. Very soon afterwards, the level IV Planet that was my the center of my attention at that time attacks! I hadn't even poked it for a good 15 min and I have guardians pouring through! So I have about 500,000 of each resource and decide to seed that system, and am basicaly admitting that my entire cluster are going to be easy pickings before I counterattack With 3 starship constructers and 3 space docks on repeat full production supported by a good 40 engineers I manage to fend off the enemy attack, but my progress is only about 180 so there all mark I, and I easily beat off the attack with my starship core and cap of missile turrets. Then its a counterattack while supporting hastily build colony ships to restore my power needs as 200 guardians and Mark IV ships sweep through my systems. After clearing those I reshore my defenses and save. At that point it was 4AM And I had a calltime of 11:00 the next day :* In New Jersey :**.

Great game! Aha, I'll beat these pesky AIs.

Was playing Assassin and Fortress Baron which where randomly given to me on diff 8-9. Cant remember off the top of my head what I chose. But it wasnt mini doom, cause that looked skeerey @[email protected]
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on January 20, 2011, 11:21:02 AM
Diff 8 or 9 will kill you ;D

I suggest not going higher than 7.6 until you have a pretty thorough understanding of the game.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Shrugging Khan on January 21, 2011, 01:39:47 PM
I suggest never playing lower than 8, because it's way too easy to win just by following simple rules  ;)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Entrenched Homperson on January 21, 2011, 01:43:20 PM
I've been doing 8. IDK if something changed in lots though I keep getting massive waves.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Suzera on January 21, 2011, 02:01:44 PM
If you have been playing in low ship caps, waves are 2x what they used to be. They were previously being divided by 8 instead of 4 from ship caps.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on January 21, 2011, 02:07:23 PM
Actually they used to be being divided by 16 instead of 4 :)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Entrenched Homperson on January 21, 2011, 03:03:34 PM
I wonder if thats it. Wow, becomes alot harder.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Shrugging Khan on January 21, 2011, 05:37:08 PM
Yah...lately, with all the wave size juggling, I've really been wondering about whether I should maybe switch one of the two AIs to a non-wave-sender type to avoid some unnecessary frustration.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: TechSY730 on January 23, 2011, 11:29:07 AM
Yah...lately, with all the wave size juggling, I've really been wondering about whether I should maybe switch one of the two AIs to a non-wave-sender type to avoid some unnecessary frustration.

I wouldn't. From what I have seen so far, this latest beta has pretty reasonable wave sizes. It could use a slight bumping up of sizes in >=7.6, but that's it. I'd say play as you normally would; they are pretty close to getting it right.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Entrenched Homperson on January 23, 2011, 06:16:21 PM
The latest one scaled it down a bit I think? They havent been as bad recently.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: TechSY730 on January 23, 2011, 08:38:47 PM
The latest one scaled it down a bit I think? They havent been as bad recently.

7 was about right before, so it is about the same now. >7, however, now goes up at a much more reasonable pace. Before, there was a HUGE difference between 7.6 and 8, much more than extrapolating the rest of the increases for previous difficulties would leave you to believe. Now 7 to 10 goes up at a much more "smooth" rate. (2-5 or so is a little harder now, be careful ;))
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Entrenched Homperson on January 24, 2011, 11:49:41 AM
Yeah, a lot of rebalancing. I was playing at 8. Now I'm having good games at 6. -_-

I'll work my way back up. :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Red Spot on January 24, 2011, 12:31:44 PM
8 is nice, above worries me though ... starting with mark2 ships as your foe and going to mark3 before you comfortably get there yourself ..  :-\
Now you can usually own a planet cause you can out-blob it (in class and/or size), above 8 it becomes wee(read: a lot) harder :)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: danando on February 21, 2011, 10:43:02 AM
I'm the one that pushed the 14000 views to 14001 POINTLESS to say  ??? ;D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Malibu Stacey on February 21, 2011, 11:06:19 AM
This thread could do with being unstickied IMO. Far too much sticky spam on this forum makes people less likely to read the topics.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Entrenched Homperson on February 21, 2011, 11:47:38 AM
IDK, I love this thread  ;D ;D

<3 THE AI
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: TechSY730 on February 21, 2011, 11:57:05 AM
This thread could do with being unstickied IMO. Far too much sticky spam on this forum makes people less likely to read the topics.

Agreed. This thread has become so long, it would probably be better to unsticking it and have all gushing about how the AI manages to be brilliant go in individual threads.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on February 21, 2011, 12:00:14 PM
I think this thread is enormously useful for potential new customers, which is why it isn't going anywhere.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Entrenched Homperson on February 21, 2011, 12:16:19 PM
It's like the Fruit Roll Up of word of mouth :P
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on February 21, 2011, 12:18:21 PM
Precisely. ;)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: TechSY730 on February 21, 2011, 12:22:33 PM
Well, since this is going to remain the go-to place to gush about the AI, I guess I'll get in the act.

How did you get the AI to abuse special abilities so well? I've seen some really nasty stuff from them by using abilities in very smart and clever ways. This is something that when you see from AIs in other RTSs, they typically don't use special unit abilities all that well and/or very cleverly.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on February 21, 2011, 12:46:55 PM
It depends on the special ability you mean, but a lot of it comes about emergently.  In the case of Etherjets and similar dragging off ships, that was coded in specially, and is one of my favorite tweaks.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: TechSY730 on February 21, 2011, 03:33:50 PM
It depends on the special ability you mean, but a lot of it comes about emergently.  In the case of Etherjets and similar dragging off ships, that was coded in specially, and is one of my favorite tweaks.

The "fun" the AI has with mobile tractor units is a great example, but there are many others.


And many others. And these only deal with ships that have special abilities. The AI has really smart behaviors for ships in general.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on February 21, 2011, 03:47:02 PM
Ah, yeah -- most of those are what I refer to as "behaviorlets" in my blog posts about AIs.  Various behaviors that are taught to the AI to make sure they act smartly.  And those tend to combine for secondary effects.  The second item on your list, with the cloaked ships hanging out, is an example of an emergent secondary effect.  The first and third were explicitly programmed-in behaviorlets.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Panopticon on February 24, 2011, 02:35:43 PM
Speaking of Etherjets, in my latest game one of the AI has them and Teleport Raiders. It really was something else watching the Etherjets haul off my reaction fleet while the TP Raiders bypassed my carefully laid defenses and went straight for the throat. Once I rebuilt the command station after I dealt with the wave the first thing I did was unlock MK II Lightning Turrets.

It really was awesome seeing the AI use those units like a crafty player would.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Entrenched Homperson on February 24, 2011, 02:48:16 PM
Now all I can think about is Fruit Roll Ups, teleporting away forever, me never being able to catch up...  :-[

...

 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: soMe_RandoM on March 05, 2011, 08:58:17 PM
wow 9+ are awesome, i love how there an giant leap from 7.8 to 9+ the difference in tactics is awesome. for example AI waves, the AI sends the wave to ??? so they can then wait till they have ether more fire power or overwhelming forces to take you out. this most unique aspect of 9+ and doom is fact that no matter what they never directly send waves to you. because of AI doing this it somewhat buys you time to recover from attacks but they much more brutal than normal waves basically think of it as CPA every wave but only units from wave. this however makes game more interesting as you can in fact find these waves while they building up and some times when i done this AI has decided to attack and run away with units to one of systems it was going to attack thus leaving my fleet to deal with remaining AI forces on planet. and when you do successes in taking waves out they are good but it risky as they basically stalking the planet, and it can be anyone planet, however scouting is awesome, just in notes write down reinforcement numbers of planet then go check once while, and if there big jump then it AI wave. for this cant wait for day where they introduce 10+ (11,12,ecter).
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: hullu on March 24, 2011, 03:26:25 AM
There should be no difference in tactics from 7.8 to 9+, the differences probably arise from different AI types and different system topography you have in place. They should send waves just like normally unless you have destroyed all warp gates, in which case the waves wouldn't come to your planets even on difficulty 1. Unless, you have some fancy AI types that do the behaviour described above.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Red Spot on March 24, 2011, 01:09:16 PM
Or you trigger a raid-engine without having any adjacent planets.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: zoutzakje on March 24, 2011, 01:27:00 PM
I don't even dare touching difficulty 9 and above atm, not even the easy not-sending-any-waves Ai types.
I'm just barely handling myself on 7.3. I always play with Random AI types, and everytime I win I put the difficulty of 1 AI just one step higher. And everytime I get utterly destroyed and there is no way of winning, even with an older save, I move one step lower. So far I've only been moving up the ladder so I'm preparing for the worst :D
Beating a 7 Tech Raider was hard enough as it is already. I'm not looking forward to the day that I get the Core as random for example :P
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Red Spot on March 24, 2011, 01:49:23 PM
You should take note of that a lot of factors contribute to how a game goes and how difficult it actually is.
I can easilly handle 2 lvl10 Assassins on a snake-style map without the use of any minor-factions/AI-plots.
Taking on 2 8.6 Mad-bomber AIs with Adv. Hybrids on a simple/realistic-style map seems a bit too steep for my skills.

High difficulty Grav-driller AIs can drill their own doom, or yours ....
Still need to try out the hardest of AIs, but I am sure I wont be playing them on 8 or above ... ;)

You can tweak you game a lot using different AIs/minor factions/map styles in specific combinations.
eg: Hybrids are easy to deal with when you have 2 or less fronts, but a pain at 5 or above fronts .. depending the mapstyle you wont need to have more than 2(snake), or get less than 5-ish(realistic).
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Sunshine! on March 24, 2011, 01:56:37 PM
Zout: the "don't send wave" AI types at higher levels are actually probably more difficult than the send wave types. Consider that every so often the AI will send a massive pile of junk at you, but there are ways to learn how to manage that, with AI wave senders.  With non-wave senders, that massive pile of junk that would otherwise be sent at you is sent to reinforce the planets around you, making expansion extremely difficult after not too long, and making any offensive action very dangerous because of the possibility of releasing ridiculous piles of threat.

Edit:
Red: I don't think the hardest AIs really cause too much of an undue problem for some of them.  Golemites, for instance, have golems on some of their planets sure, but otherwise they function normally.  Just treat golems like mobile fortresses.  Attritioners have attrition emitters, sure, but those are both easily destroyed (transport with 20 bombers or so, boom!) and capturable.  Scorched Earth is a nightmare any way you look at it, Everything is hilarious (though scary!).  Just set your randoms to "Random Non-Technologist" and have some fun, you'll get used to it eventually.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Red Spot on March 24, 2011, 02:02:44 PM
With hardest I mean the technologist AIs, not the attritioner and such ;)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Sunshine! on March 24, 2011, 02:21:44 PM
IIRC, mk1 waves have a 1.1 or 1.3 size modifier or something, and mk4 waves have a .5 modifier.  Just remember that you'll be dealing with technologically superior, but (likely) numerically smaller incoming waves, so your disruption (tractor beams, spider turrets, or paralyzers if you've got them, for example) is going to be more effective.  Abuse that stuff.

Edit: This gives me a thought - I usually drop mk3 military on my planets and go for "overwhelming force," but dropping a mk1 logistics station and pairing it with spider turrets/riots/spider bots instead might not be such a bad idea.  That is, until the exogalactic strike forces show up and ignore engine damage/gravity effects :/
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: zoutzakje on March 24, 2011, 02:46:15 PM
ah yes, I forgot about the no wave AI types using their "wave points" to reinforce the planets even more. Even so, I'm still staying away from dif 9 so far :P
I now got a random new realistic map seed where I am able to play as if it were a snake map for a large part. Took 8 or 9 out of 40 planets so far and I only got 3 borderplanets. Despite the fact that I'm fighting against yet another technologist, I should be able to handle it on 7.3.
I know there are a lot of random factors in the game, but being able to adapt to them is what's enabling me to slowly move on to higher difficulties (though I'll save AI plots such as hybrids for later :P)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Vihermaali on June 25, 2011, 02:57:00 AM
Wow! My first time playing against a Spirecraft - Hard - AI. The 2nd exogalactic wave is incoming and just like last, it goes straight for my homeworld (which is on the edge of of my own part of the galaxy).

My shields are holding and suddenly...my home command station just dies. With all the shields around it still holding. I reload and this time I watch carefully for ships that can shoot through forcefields and I see.. raid starships. Raid starships that AI puts under some shield things and then RUSHES them towards my home command station! This means the raid starships are protected from my fleet while he tries to..assassinate my homestation.

Daaaamn, I didn't know AI could be this clever.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on June 25, 2011, 09:26:36 AM
Raid starships that AI puts under some shield things and then RUSHES them towards my home command station! This means the raid starships are protected from my fleet while he tries to..assassinate my homestation.

Daaaamn, I didn't know AI could be this clever.
Haha, I told it to rush your homeworld, but I didn't tell it anything specific about raid starships and shield bearers (not sure exactly which shield things are working here; could be riot starships, shield bearers, or spirecraft shieldbearers).  But yea, raid starships are very troublesome to an otherwise citadel-level defense due to flying through and firing through forcefields.  Sniper Turrets are fairly effective at nailing them, in quantity, as is anything with really high per-shot firepower (to punch through the raid's armor).  More generally having multiple layers of defense in which to catch them before they can physically get near your home command station.  Also you can separate them from their shielding friends by placing forcefields over the wormholes that they have to enter (not exit), the shielding guys will get bumped aside by the ff (as long as it lasts) while the Raid will go through.  Though depending on the exogalactic attack's setup the Raids may stick with the battlegroup's lead ship, but at least it isn't beelining at full speed in that case.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Corsaer on July 16, 2011, 11:26:44 PM
It was really early in the game and I needed to take a MkIV planet holding an ARS that also happened to be directly in my path of conquest. I had only one MkIII ship unlocked at the time (Infiltrator planet bonus) but the AI had just a few hundred total ships and an Ion Cannon. I'm new so I wasn't sure exactly how large of a force I would need to take it so I decided to err on the safe side and send my entire fleet. Well I'm not sure if it was coincidence or what, but as soon as my fleet finished warping through, a large group of AI ships that had been stationed there made a beeline through my fleet and into the wormhole I came through, quickly destroyed my unshielded/unturreted Command Station on that planet, then hopped over to assault my Home Planet. I quickly select an appropriately sized splinter of my own fleet and attempt to send them through the wormhole since I left things rather undefended--only to find out that I had overlooked a Black Hole Machine that prevented me frome leaving. I paused the game and queued up several more Engineers, two Colony Ships, and unpaused my infinite loop of all my ships (which were currently capped out) on my Space Dock. Unpause. My Tractor Beam Turrets manage to hold all of the AI ships for now. I rush my fleet on the MkIV AI planet from guard post to guard post, destroying them as fast as I can and ignoring AI ships shooting at my fleet. Every casualty is built in a second or two at my Space Dock and I send them to delay the AI on my homeworld. When both Colony Ships finish I send them with three Engineers through the wormhole to the Mk IV planet. One Colony Ship and two Engineers make it through. But by this time more enemy ships from a neighboring hostile planet have come through to assault my homeworld, I have two normal waves counting down, and I've triggered a counter-attack wave from a guard post. I Scrap three of my starships to free up some energy, send a handful of my rebuilt Infiltrators to one of my adjacent planets I've captured and pop a Nienzul Hive (the thing that gives you lots of their MkI ships.) Use the Nienzul and whatever is being built at my Space Dock to finish off the original ships, and then delay the two waves. I manage to capture the planet just as my last Tractor Beam Turret is destroyed and rush my fleet back to my home planet to mop up the remains of the two waves and to defend from the counter attack that was going to arrive in several minutes.

This might just be bad luck and sloppy decisions, but at the time it seemed like they knew.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on July 18, 2011, 08:26:29 AM
This might just be bad luck and sloppy decisions, but at the time it seemed like they knew.
Hahaha, yea, that bit where the pile-up went through the wormhole after you sent your fleet in was probably the "don't go through if you're massively outnumbered" logic kicking in, so we kind of did tell it to do that, but the two-front dogpiling on your homeworld while so much of your fleet was tied up by a BHM was very much just an interesting situation emerging from a set of very simple rules that didn't actually have that in view.

Welcome to the forums :)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: TechSY730 on July 19, 2011, 06:54:02 PM
This might just be bad luck and sloppy decisions, but at the time it seemed like they knew.
Hahaha, yea, that bit where the pile-up went through the wormhole after you sent your fleet in was probably the "don't go through if you're massively outnumbered" logic kicking in, so we kind of did tell it to do that, but the two-front dogpiling on your homeworld while so much of your fleet was tied up by a BHM was very much just an interesting situation emerging from a set of very simple rules that didn't actually have that in view.

Welcome to the forums :)

You know one of the things that this game is big about is emergent intelligence, "smarts" that are not programmed in but rather seem to come about from simple rules.
You know the saying stating is impossible to distinguish sufficiently advanced incompetence from malice? Well I guess you could say that one of the "sayings" of  emergent intelligence is that it is impossible to distinguish sufficiently advanced "dumb luck" from intelligence.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: TechSY730 on August 07, 2011, 01:48:22 PM
Alright, I was sending in a guerrilla raid of bombers to take care of a fortress, with a few escorts so they don't all get killed along the way. It was going pretty well until most of the bombers and many of my escorts just died for some reason. I was wondering what in the world just happened, and then I looked in the side bar. Turns out a self destruct guardian intercepted my little raid and basically stopped it. My metal supplies really took a beating as I rebuilt my bombers (This was still pretty early game).

Sometimes the AI knows just where and how to strike to shut down your efforts.

P.S. Sorry for the double post.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Ranakastrasz on August 07, 2011, 02:15:01 PM
P.S. Sorry for the double post.
You could actually use the delete option, and copy the new info into your old post.

Alright, I was sending in a guerrilla raid of bombers to take care of a fortress, with a few escorts so they don't all get killed along the way. It was going pretty well until most of the bombers and many of my escorts just died for some reason. I was wondering what in the world just happened, and then I looked in the side bar. Turns out a self destruct guardian intercepted my little raid and basically stopped it. My metal supplies really took a beating as I rebuilt my bombers (This was still pretty early game).

Sometimes the AI knows just where and how to strike to shut down your efforts.
I haven't met any self destruct guardians, however, I will regardless suggest you check the planet summery better first (before starting the raid), as certain guardians (Looking at you EMP guardian) can lose you the game if you piss them off, or at least put you in a really bad situation. (your command stations don't last long under bombardment by even AI fighters without force fields. that is how I lost my last game, I learned my lesson.)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Nalgas on August 14, 2011, 04:27:14 AM
Turns out a self destruct guardian intercepted my little raid and basically stopped it. My metal supplies really took a beating as I rebuilt my bombers (This was still pretty early game).

Now that's just mean.  I hate how you think you have everything planned out, and your resources are balanced juuuust right, and then you unexpectedly lose a huge chunk of bombers or something else vitally important and extremely heavy on one resource (especially if your starting bonus ship is useful and also leans that way) and throws everything off while you're stuck reorganizing everything to compensate.  Except I don't really hate it that much, because that's the kind of stuff that keeps things interesting (at least as long as it's fair and my fault for not noticing it and dealing with it properly).

I haven't met any self destruct guardians, however, I will regardless suggest you check the planet summery better first (before starting the raid), as certain guardians (Looking at you EMP guardian) can lose you the game if you piss them off, or at least put you in a really bad situation. (your command stations don't last long under bombardment by even AI fighters without force fields. that is how I lost my last game, I learned my lesson.)

I don't at all mean this to be rude or critical, so please don't take it that way, but I just find it amusing to see someone making basic gameplay suggestions to a guy who's spent nearly as much time playing the game as the devs.  To be fair, though, I haven't seen him around on here as much lately, so newer members probably don't all know him yet.  Heh.

And yeah, EMP guardians are all kinds of evil when they catch you off guard.  I've had some good times with them that totally would fit right in with the stories in this thread, like the literal train of EMP guardians that ran through multiple systems in this game (http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,8625.0.html) a few months ago.  I don't think I would've been able to hold that off without the Fallen Spire stuff.  In a regular game, the AI sending EMP guardians to multiple systems in a row after already having used one to wipe out a good chunk of my fleet would be more than enough to take any depth that remained out of "defense in depth".
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Ranakastrasz on August 14, 2011, 08:38:21 AM


I haven't met any self destruct guardians, however, I will regardless suggest you check the planet summery better first (before starting the raid), as certain guardians (Looking at you EMP guardian) can lose you the game if you piss them off, or at least put you in a really bad situation. (your command stations don't last long under bombardment by even AI fighters without force fields. that is how I lost my last game, I learned my lesson.)

I don't at all mean this to be rude or critical, so please don't take it that way, but I just find it amusing to see someone making basic gameplay suggestions to a guy who's spent nearly as much time playing the game as the devs.  To be fair, though, I haven't seen him around on here as much lately, so newer members probably don't all know him yet.  Heh.

I suppose I ought to know whether someone is a long time community member, however, I know that post count is not a direct measurement, but is related. If star count is not actually directly related to post count, I could assume that anyone with more stars that me is a longer time community member than I am. I am not sure what I should do to avoid this type of situation in the future.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: BobTheJanitor on August 14, 2011, 11:04:16 AM
I suppose I ought to know whether someone is a long time community member, however, I know that post count is not a direct measurement, but is related. If star count is not actually directly related to post count, I could assume that anyone with more stars that me is a longer time community member than I am. I am not sure what I should do to avoid this type of situation in the future.

It's hard to tell, really. I've only been around since January of this year, but I just don't know when to shut-up, as evidenced by my overblown post count. The forums might have some option to turn on registration dates to show with posts, maybe that would help. Although what would be more fun is if there were a way to show total hours played for AI War next to each person's post. But then, you could only really get that from Steam players.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: TechSY730 on August 14, 2011, 09:14:45 PM
I haven't met any self destruct guardians

They only show up on difficulty 8 or higher, IIRC.

I will regardless suggest you check the planet summery better first (before starting the raid)

You're right, newbie mistake there. I tend to forget to analyze in detail what the enemy has before constructing my guerrilla raids. If I had saw that self destruct guardian, I would of sent in something that could take it out from a distance first.

I haven't met any self destruct guardians, however, I will regardless suggest you check the planet summery better first (before starting the raid), as certain guardians (Looking at you EMP guardian) can lose you the game if you piss them off, or at least put you in a really bad situation. (your command stations don't last long under bombardment by even AI fighters without force fields. that is how I lost my last game, I learned my lesson.)

I don't at all mean this to be rude or critical, so please don't take it that way, but I just find it amusing to see someone making basic gameplay suggestions to a guy who's spent nearly as much time playing the game as the devs.  To be fair, though, I haven't seen him around on here as much lately, so newer members probably don't all know him yet.  Heh.

I suppose I ought to know whether someone is a long time community member, however, I know that post count is not a direct measurement, but is related. If star count is not actually directly related to post count, I could assume that anyone with more stars that me is a longer time community member than I am. I am not sure what I should do to avoid this type of situation in the future.

Don't worry about it. Even "long time" players like me sometimes forget simple stuff and make "newbie" mistakes, as evidenced above. Even the best of players need to be reminded of the basics every now and then. ;)

Besides, I'm not as much of a veteran as some players. I know that there are a few people here that were around in the 1.x versions, and several that were around in the 2.x versions. I only started at around 3.1, and joined the forms in the last 3.x beta period.

EDIT:

To be fair, though, I haven't seen him around on here as much lately, so newer members probably don't all know him yet.  Heh.

After I won my first game a couple months ago (yea, it took me like 800 hours of playing just to get my first solo win.  :-[), I decided to take a break from playing AI war "seriously". Now I'm getting back into again, so expect to see me around more again.  ;D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Ranakastrasz on August 14, 2011, 09:45:59 PM
I haven't met any self destruct guardians

They only show up on difficulty 8 or higher, IIRC.
That explains it, I have only played on 7 so far, and its quite difficult already.
I will regardless suggest you check the planet summery better first (before starting the raid)
You're right, newbie mistake there. I tend to forget to analyze in detail what the enemy has before constructing my guerrilla raids. If I had saw that self destruct guardian, I would of sent in something that could take it out from a distance first.
I was actually slightly incorrect. I played again today, and apparently it just says *guardians* which means you have to have a scout there currently, and check the sidebar for them.
I haven't met any self destruct guardians, however, I will regardless suggest you check the planet summery better first (before starting the raid), as certain guardians (Looking at you EMP guardian) can lose you the game if you piss them off, or at least put you in a really bad situation. (your command stations don't last long under bombardment by even AI fighters without force fields. that is how I lost my last game, I learned my lesson.)

I don't at all mean this to be rude or critical, so please don't take it that way, but I just find it amusing to see someone making basic gameplay suggestions to a guy who's spent nearly as much time playing the game as the devs.  To be fair, though, I haven't seen him around on here as much lately, so newer members probably don't all know him yet.  Heh.

I suppose I ought to know whether someone is a long time community member, however, I know that post count is not a direct measurement, but is related. If star count is not actually directly related to post count, I could assume that anyone with more stars that me is a longer time community member than I am. I am not sure what I should do to avoid this type of situation in the future.

Don't worry about it. Even "long time" players like me sometimes forget simple stuff and make "newbie" mistakes, as evidenced above. Even the best of players need to be reminded of the basics every now and then. ;)

Besides, I'm not as much of a veteran as some players. I know that there are a few people here that were around in the 1.x versions, and several that were around in the 2.x versions. I only started at around 3.1, and joined the forms in the last 3.x beta period.

EDIT:

To be fair, though, I haven't seen him around on here as much lately, so newer members probably don't all know him yet.  Heh.

After I won my first game a couple months ago (yea, it took me like 800 hours of playing just to get my first solo win.  :-[), I decided to take a break from playing AI war "seriously". Now I'm getting back into again, so expect to see me around more again.  ;D

Also, I met my first Gravity drain today, and I really hate the fact they slow raid starships to a crawl. So I have to usually have to have my allies support my raids with a distraction to avoid my 12 raid star-ships being picked off at 7-12 speed. (yea, 9 mark 1 + 3 mark 2 atm, due to allies sharing them. I wish you could gift capacity, as it would make it easier to control, since you could ctrl-group them all)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Coppermantis on August 15, 2011, 11:14:46 PM
Ugh. So I'm playing on my 10 planet map and The AI sends a few thousand autocannons to planet Apex through the exogalactic wormhole there. I beat a lot of them, but the rest remain cloaked and distribute themselves around my systems. (I own 9 out of 10 of them.) So, I can't take them out and don't feel like using tachyon warheads, so several hundred of them just sit there and wait. I eventually forget about them and move defenses up to the final front, and then all the autocannons decloak and begin a massive counterattack.

This was of course followed by some real stupidity, they proceed to split up and get slaughtered by the defenses on neighboring planets, and didn't even take out the mk. II Ion cannon I had there. The command station can be replaced, the cannon cannot.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Hearteater on August 16, 2011, 09:46:59 AM
Amusing, when there are cloaked ships at a plant, I find building a tachyon scanner inside the shield around my CS so it reveals anything sitting right next to the shield will catch most of the cloaked ships.  Just park your fleet nearby while the tachyon scanner is being built, you'll reveal them and they'll instantly get destroyed.  I should mention this mainly applies when you are blocking the warp point with your shield as well.

Doesn't catch everything, but it is very cheap and quick.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Gudamor on September 02, 2011, 10:39:02 AM
10 hours into the game, a wave arrives at a system where I have a Zenith Power Generator.

"It should be alright, I've got plenty of turrets and shields there."

Instantly I'm in an energy brownout: -360,000 energy. How did they kill it so fast?! ...where's the AIP gain...  AND WHAT ARE THOSE GIANT SHIPS IN THE SYSTEM?!

Oh.



So remember: 10% chance of Beachheads on just a single AI can give you plenty of time to forget what Beachheads are, let alone that you enabled them.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: steelstiletto on September 12, 2011, 06:08:40 AM
My buddies and I have actually learned from the AI. For a bit of time when we first started, we didn't like using anything with Tractor beams. Then, we found an AI that used them. Very effectively. In specific, when a wave would come, or we would attack a planet that had tractor platforms, they would gather up all of our ships and take them away to one of the AI's well defended planet. Needless to say, our ships did not last long is such hostile space. Splitting up our force like that ended up losing us the game.

Well, that, and the endless carriers of MkV ships that were being sent at us. Those probably didn't really help us win either...
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Nice Save on September 18, 2011, 07:41:23 PM
I suppose I ought to know whether someone is a long time community member, however, I know that post count is not a direct measurement, but is related. If star count is not actually directly related to post count, I could assume that anyone with more stars that me is a longer time community member than I am. I am not sure what I should do to avoid this type of situation in the future.

It's hard to tell, really. I've only been around since January of this year, but I just don't know when to shut-up, as evidenced by my overblown post count. The forums might have some option to turn on registration dates to show with posts, maybe that would help. Although what would be more fun is if there were a way to show total hours played for AI War next to each person's post. But then, you could only really get that from Steam players.

Still wouldn't necessarily help, you wouldn't think from my join date or (especially) my post count that I've been lurking around since the 2.x days.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Coppermantis on October 10, 2011, 07:47:24 PM
This made me rage. I was fighting off an exogalactic strikeforce, took out almost everthing with a martyr, but the regenerator golem survives. Then it goes and DESTROYS MY HOME COMMAND STATION. Yes, I lost to a lone regenerator golem. It's not quite brilliant AI, but it was still interesting. Bleh.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Nalgas on October 10, 2011, 07:49:10 PM
Yes, I lost to a lone regenerator golem. It's not quite brilliant AI, but it was still interesting.

I don't even know what that is, but it sure is funny.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Coppermantis on October 10, 2011, 08:00:17 PM
Yeah, I was all "Oh, regen golem, what can it possibly-YOU HAVE LOST"

 :'(
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on October 10, 2011, 08:03:29 PM
Yeah, I was all "Oh, regen golem, what can it possibly-YOU HAVE LOST"

 :'(
And the water boy scores the touchdown! ;D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: chemical_art on October 10, 2011, 08:10:52 PM
Yeah, I was all "Oh, regen golem, what can it possibly-YOU HAVE LOST"

 :'(
And the water boy scores the touchdown! ;D

A waterboy with a cannon is no less scary. When I first saw the regen golem's firepower I thought "into the front [of battle] you go!"

Then I saw the cost and rethought my idea.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Philo on November 14, 2011, 10:53:24 PM
This AI is indeed amazing. We tried to outsmart the AI by baiting it to attack a weak planet with the exowave in our defense by leaving almost nothing in defense but leaving 2/3rds of our force and a nuke ready to jump in 2 hops away. The AI instead went straight for our most heavily guarded planet and took the long route, our nuke was useless since it would only hit our own troops and our troops were too late to get back and save the day.
Lost again. But how :D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Faulty Logic on July 14, 2012, 07:28:07 AM
AI on 10 with only 2 effective AIP spawned a gravity guardian on top of my transports while they were on route to conquer my first world, killed them, ate their soft candy centers, and then taunted me:

AI: Gravity: It's not just a good idea, it's the law
My Face: Please stop stabbing me

Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Coppermantis on July 14, 2012, 02:18:57 PM
Did it really say that? I've never seen it use that one.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Mánagarmr on July 14, 2012, 02:29:31 PM
I'm pretty sure it didn't. But it's funny nontheless :D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Faulty Logic on July 15, 2012, 03:22:56 AM
The AI actually used the standard "did you really think that was going to work?" taunt. And the frustrating thing was that I actually did expect it to work and had every reason to believe it would. That's when the plan met the AI. Difficulty 10 is very fun. For the DF version of fun as well.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Wanderer on July 15, 2012, 08:01:01 AM
The AI actually used the standard "did you really think that was going to work?" taunt. And the frustrating thing was that I actually did expect it to work and had every reason to believe it would. That's when the plan met the AI. Difficulty 10 is very fun. For the DF version of fun as well.

Raid Engine <> HFS.  Raid Engine = HFS + Tantrum Spiral in progress + siege.

Send in the !!Clowns!!.  Single entry pipe + Magma dump + 120 Weapon Traps ftw.  To hell with FPS, we're settin' up shop in the circus tent.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Mánagarmr on July 15, 2012, 08:48:57 AM
Raid Engine <> HFS.  Raid Engine = HFS + Tantrum Spiral in progress + siege.

Send in the !!Clowns!!.  Single entry pipe + Magma dump + 120 Weapon Traps ftw.  To hell with FPS, we're settin' up shop in the circus tent.
*dies laughing*
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on July 15, 2012, 09:31:50 AM
Raid Engine <> HFS.  Raid Engine = HFS + Tantrum Spiral in progress + siege.

Send in the !!Clowns!!.  Single entry pipe + Magma dump + 120 Weapon Traps ftw.  To hell with FPS, we're settin' up shop in the circus tent.
*dies laughing*
If you were in a fort that was trying to camp the circus, dying of laughter would be an extremely merciful end.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Mánagarmr on July 15, 2012, 09:45:06 AM
There are actually people who have successfully "colonized" HFS. So, yeah.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Bognor on July 16, 2012, 02:54:01 AM
Just out of curiosity, what is the link between AI War and Dwarf Fortress?  They're almost the only two games I've played in the last few years, but I was introduced to them by different friends at different times.  Yet it seems like half the folks here are fans of both.  I notice Chris mentioned Dwarf Fortress in the We could really use your help (http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php?topic=7059.0) message, and I remember him citing it as an influence.  Over on the DF forums, Zoutzakje mentioned (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104654.msg3201151#msg3201151) the complexity and endless possibilites of both games as reasons for their common appeal.  Is it just that the two games appeal to similar people?  Or is there some other link I'm missing?
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Wanderer on July 16, 2012, 03:08:03 AM
At a guess, they have a similar appeal.  Deep, complex, and generally strategical.  Though, DF really is more city-building than strategy game without a few of the mods.  They're also difficult to master games.  I'd say though that there's probably not as many people as it seems like, it juts seems that way because those comments tend to stand out as being completely "Where'd THAT come from?"
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on July 16, 2012, 09:43:48 AM
Partly the connection is that I can't get through a hundred forum posts without making some kind of DF reference ;)

Chris thinks DF is pretty cool, too.

And a fair chunk of our fanbase (at one point, anyway) heard about us on the Bay12 forums.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Eternaly_Lost on July 16, 2012, 06:00:49 PM
Partly the connection is that I can't get through a hundred forum posts without making some kind of DF reference ;)

Chris thinks DF is pretty cool, too.

And a fair chunk of our fanbase (at one point, anyway) heard about us on the Bay12 forums.

I personally heard about this game at my board game club. I am not sure how many other can claim the same, but there is not many computer games that I heard about there, so when one came up I decided to give it a try when I saw the special at Christmas.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Bognor on July 17, 2012, 11:46:37 AM
I'd say though that there's probably not as many people as it seems like, it juts seems that way because those comments tend to stand out as being completely "Where'd THAT come from?"
Curiosity can lead me to do strange things with spreadsheets.

You, me, Chris, Keith, eRe4a3r, Moonshine Fox, Echo34, Hearteater, tigersfan, Cyborg, and Dizzard all appear to be Dwarf Fortress fans (based on a very quick search... apologies if I'm mistaken on anyone.)  Collectively, we've contributed over 50% of all the posts (http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php?action=mlist;sort=posts;desc;start=0) to the Arcen Games forums.  I'm sure there are many more - I stopped searching when I hit 50%.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Hearteater on July 17, 2012, 11:53:58 AM
Well, next game of DF I have names for my Dwarfs now.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Bognor on July 17, 2012, 12:13:31 PM
I picked my name in part because it sounds dwarfy  :D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: SenorPez on July 18, 2012, 10:56:39 AM
If the new AI War expansion includes rainshowers of blood and fog that causes ships to turn inside out, I'll be both horrified and amused.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Aklyon on July 27, 2012, 01:19:45 AM
Maybe it rains bits of shattered strategy instead?
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: RCIX on August 14, 2012, 06:01:49 AM
I was messing around with Raid Starships sniping off Ion Cannons that were in my way. All of a sudden:

The AI Is Gathering Threat in response to your deep strike on Michkill

Weeeeeee, I didn't know it would do that! Thankfully I have my fleet and a turret complement parked securely on Toothda and a solid turret system on my home world.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Mánagarmr on August 14, 2012, 10:01:22 AM
I was messing around with Raid Starships sniping off Ion Cannons that were in my way. All of a sudden:

The AI Is Gathering Threat in response to your deep strike on Michkill

Weeeeeee, I didn't know it would do that! Thankfully I have my fleet and a turret complement parked securely on Toothda and a solid turret system on my home world.
That was added a while ago to deal with excessive bunnyhopping made by some players. It was deemed to be too out of scope with the intended gameplay (exploit) so thus this was added. It can become REALLY nasty in a hurry :P
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Volatar on August 25, 2012, 11:18:51 PM
I'd say though that there's probably not as many people as it seems like, it juts seems that way because those comments tend to stand out as being completely "Where'd THAT come from?"
Curiosity can lead me to do strange things with spreadsheets.

You, me, Chris, Keith, eRe4a3r, Moonshine Fox, Echo34, Hearteater, tigersfan, Cyborg, and Dizzard all appear to be Dwarf Fortress fans (based on a very quick search... apologies if I'm mistaken on anyone.)  Collectively, we've contributed over 50% of all the posts (http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php?action=mlist;sort=posts;desc;start=0) to the Arcen Games forums.  I'm sure there are many more - I stopped searching when I hit 50%.

*raises hand* I am with the DF crowd, as a matter of fact...

And a fair chunk of our fanbase (at one point, anyway) heard about us on the Bay12 forums.

Yep. That's where I heard about the game.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on August 26, 2012, 02:17:47 AM
I actually got a coupon for the game for 66% off I think? I looked at the game, and the idea of man vs. machine intrigued me, especially if the AI REALLY WAS that good. But, I'm certain that the coupon was only for AI War: Fleet Command, and I know I got the Alien bundle, so I'm pretty certain I didn't ever use the coupon... but I also don't think it went to waste. I'm not really sure what happened, but I remember I got two copies of the game when it was 50% off on some other sale and I'm still waiting to give away the other one to a friend.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Mánagarmr on August 26, 2012, 06:01:45 AM
I didn't actually hear about it on Bay12. Now that I think about it, I can't even remember where I first heard about AI:War or how I found it. It's too long ago :P Fact is, I registered here on Arcen about 6 months prior to registering on the Bay12 forums.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Aklyon on August 26, 2012, 10:40:58 AM
I heard about AI War somewhere, then eventually decided that I could do with another forum and came here from B12.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Mánagarmr on September 01, 2012, 05:36:11 PM
So it turns out that sending 15 fighters and a champion to neighboring worlds to kill gates about 2 minutes into the game is a BAD idea. I had a bunch of guardians, a Zenith starship and assorted other fluff swarm my homeworld in minutes. I had basically no defenses. WHEEPS!

I survived due to careful target selection and my ever-respawning champion.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on September 01, 2012, 06:02:47 PM
^ The same thing happened to me but I used transport ships to move scouts past a high-mark planet.
The AI is touchy.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Bognor on September 02, 2012, 01:20:38 PM
Yeah, scouts don't permanently stir up AI ships but transports do.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Mánagarmr on September 02, 2012, 01:21:56 PM
I should've built some basic defenses at least before I sent my ships out there to destroy gates :P
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on September 05, 2012, 12:57:05 AM
Good news I guess?
In my game design class, there was a bit of discussion of AI. I went ahead and described a couple stories of AI War, and a little bit about how the AI works. So, maybe a few poor college students will grow a small interest for this game.
One thing I certainly love about the AI is just looking through old posts or new, and hearing wonderful stories about freak EtherJet coincidences, or likewise, and retelling those like old war stories to my friends.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Mánagarmr on September 08, 2012, 02:23:41 PM
Me, Vitka and KingIsaacLinksr set up a 3 player Coop game. Diff 8, Assassin/Stealth Master, no minor factions, every expansion except AS. We lasted a grand total of 1,5 hours. I had a whipping boy set up to eat all the waves, but before Vitka and King could set up theirs, they each got waves to their homeworlds and were unable to repel them. King fell first, then Vitka and the remaining 800+ threat passed my Whipping boy, way out of range of the turrets and I suddenly had 300 Eyebots MKII nomming my home command station.

YOU HAVE LOST!

GG :(
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Vitka on September 08, 2012, 02:42:17 PM
Speaking of whipping boys, if only one player's worlds are warp accessible to AI, will wave funnel there, or others get them as threat?
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Lancefighter on September 08, 2012, 02:43:27 PM
Yeah, waves will go there.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Mánagarmr on September 08, 2012, 04:01:15 PM
Yes, waves can only be launched from one Warp Gate adjacent to a human homeworld. Otherwise waves will be spawned on a planet and move as free threat. So always keep ONE gate up and fortify your neighboring world. That is "The Whipping Boy". This of course goes out the window if you run with the "Cross Planet Waves" modifier.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Lancefighter on September 08, 2012, 04:13:12 PM
I've actually been wondering. What happens with crossplanet waves when the ai is a warp jumper? How do warp gate guardians work?
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Mánagarmr on September 08, 2012, 06:32:07 PM
I've actually been wondering. What happens with crossplanet waves when the ai is a warp jumper? How do warp gate guardians work?
As far as I'm aware, Warp Gate guardians are just mobile warp gates, so I guess they'll just deposit their wave anywhere, just as a Crossplanet Wave does.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Lancefighter on September 08, 2012, 07:11:05 PM
Mmm maybe I guess crossplanet waves might spawn directly from them.. But usually crossplanet waves start 2 planets out.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: zoutzakje on September 10, 2012, 10:41:11 AM
The AI is a sneaky bastard. I was just playing a 7/7 game against techo parasite and shield ninny. 2 hours in and everything was going pretty well, even though all minor factions were turned on. My homeworld wasn't very well defended yet, but I figured it would hold for now. The enemy had no cloacking ships so far, so I didn't feel the need to protect myself against them. Big Mistake, always be prepared for the unexpected.
I was doing an attack on an ARS world when the "you have lost" message randomly popped up, about a second after the warning that my home command station was under attack. One of the biggest wtf moments I had with this game so far. Turns out a dozen or so mk III vampire claws from the techo AI (which he must have unlocked pretty recently) came in as threat and destroyed my home command. Of course the home FF has tachyon emitters now, but my turrets weren't enough to stop them. 20 threat or lower is usally not something I care about.
Ah well, reload and adapt I guess :D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Hearteater on September 10, 2012, 11:40:57 AM
Isn't the Home Command Station immune to Fusion Cutters?
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: chemical_art on September 10, 2012, 11:44:00 AM
Isn't the Home Command Station immune to Fusion Cutters?

They are.

Melee units are brutal in many ways on homeworld attacks as they demolish several aip rasing human buildings, but the home command itself is safe from melee.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: zoutzakje on September 10, 2012, 11:51:26 AM
they are? :O lol then I still don't know what killed me. I feel silly now.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Hearteater on September 10, 2012, 12:54:46 PM
Put down 1 Lightning Turret next to your Home Command Station to basically be immune to Vampire Claws thanks to the built-in gravity effect.  Also, unlike all other regular player Command Stations, Military CS have Fusion Cutter immunity too.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Diazo on September 10, 2012, 12:55:39 PM
However, Vampire Claws love Energy Collectors and Metal Converters.

Once those go, your FFs and turrets all de-activate so even a lone fighter can kill your home command easily.

Bleeping annoying is what they are.

D.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Mánagarmr on September 10, 2012, 12:59:52 PM
You might've been visited by Eyebots as well. Those tend to nom home commands rather nicely.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Faulty Logic on September 14, 2012, 09:03:50 PM
The AI spawned a warp gate guardian in my gate-raided cluster of AI planets right before an exo-galactic strikeforce, enabling an exo group to bypass my chokepoint, destroy a zenith power generator, knocking the forcefields of my chokepoint out, enabling the 10000-ship cpa to kill me.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Hearteater on September 14, 2012, 09:29:58 PM
Or as the AI calls it, Tuesday (http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/23560).
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Faulty Logic on September 14, 2012, 09:49:25 PM
"I have a Fallen Spire fleet! And a massive chokepoint! I am invincible!"

Minutes later:

You have lost
AI: How stupid do you think we are?
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Lord Of Nothing on October 17, 2012, 06:22:23 AM
Yep. This AI is awesome.

I decided to try my first difficulty 9 AI recently. Grav-Driller. (With a 7 sledge hammer)
The botnet golem was nearby! So was an Artillery golem, and a cursed golem.

But that really would have been to good to be true. There's a catch: The AI's very first bonus ship pick was Zenith Bombards. I'm getting a LOT of use out of Spire Starships.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on October 17, 2012, 09:34:26 AM
There's a catch: The AI's very first bonus ship pick was Zenith Bombards.
My condolences.

Welcome to the forums :)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Faulty Logic on October 17, 2012, 05:41:56 PM
Newbies popping up everywhere!
Welcome!
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: TechSY730 on October 22, 2012, 05:53:35 PM
Have you noticed that when there are bugs or oversights (especially with, but not limited to, AI limitations) that allow for extremely abusive behavior, the AI is often very, VERY happy to immediately start abusing it, even if trying to maximize/minimize whatever that abuse allowed it to maximize/minimize too far wasn't an explicitly coded in behavior? (Examples to come later, maybe)


It really makes it feel like the AI very smart and is actively plotting against you. :o
Does it feel freaky from a developer standpoint too, where the AI you made frequently starts abusing things you never told it explicitly to use/abuse?
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Faulty Logic on October 22, 2012, 06:48:17 PM
Keep in mind the Jean Dixon effect: you remember when this does happen, and forget when it fails to.

On a completely different note, threat fleets are terrifying. Within thirty seconds of me withdrawing the fleet, the TF is on the move. About a minute later, there is a smoking wreck where the command station was. They attack, target, position themselves, and even retreat with either excellent intelligence or ridiculous luck.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on October 22, 2012, 07:13:21 PM
Keep in mind the Jean Dixon effect: you remember when this does happen, and forget when it fails to.
Yea.  Also, people tend to see patterns that aren't there, because intuition tells them a pattern is there.  But I suppose when something is doing an excellent job of slaughtering your entire species, a certain degree of irrational analysis is to be expected.

Quote
On a completely different note, threat fleets are terrifying. Within thirty seconds of me withdrawing the fleet, the TF is on the move. About a minute later, there is a smoking wreck where the command station was.
They left enough of the station that it was still burning?  Hmph, getting sloppy, I see.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Wanderer on October 29, 2012, 10:56:04 PM
This is all I really have to say...

(http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=897.0;attach=6316)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Coppermantis on October 30, 2012, 12:16:05 AM
This is all I really have to say...

(http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=897.0;attach=6316)

Haha.

I love AI War expansions because they're good. Not crazy "Couple of maps for $15" deals but a major amount of content  for a more than fair price.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: chemical_art on November 01, 2012, 07:10:57 PM
I am hacking a world.

AI launches a tachyon missile.

Discover 3k special forces cloaked ships surrounded my core of ships.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Hearteater on November 01, 2012, 08:15:18 PM
Were they not attacking prior to being decloaked?  I know that's been an issue before that I don't think has ever been fixed.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: TechSY730 on November 01, 2012, 08:18:41 PM
Were they not attacking prior to being decloaked?  I know that's been an issue before that I don't think has ever been fixed.

Yea, cloaked AI ships are still way to hesitant to decloak and attack, even in cases where they probably would win (like this one). I sure hope this is fixed soon, it's been bugged like this for way too long.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on November 01, 2012, 08:28:55 PM
I am hacking a world.

AI launches a tachyon missile.

Discover 3k special forces cloaked ships surrounded my core of ships.
Priceless.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Aklyon on November 01, 2012, 09:12:58 PM
I am hacking a world.

AI launches a tachyon missile.

Discover 3k special forces cloaked ships surrounded my core of ships.
Priceless.
In reaction or ship cost? :)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: chemical_art on November 01, 2012, 09:16:46 PM
I am hacking a world.

AI launches a tachyon missile.

Discover 3k special forces cloaked ships surrounded my core of ships.
Priceless.
In reaction or ship cost? :)

The core group of ships were a MK V battleship and 100 allies. The 3k flimsy ships I think were scared. I still came out with about 50 allied ships and my champ.

The cockroaches, once exposed in the light, scampered away under my boot. 
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Vihermaali on November 20, 2012, 03:28:32 PM
Did AI suddenly get more intelligent? I bought this expansion and... AI troops don't suicide anymore. I've seen 1k+ ships just wandering around AI systems (NOT my border systems), hit-and-run attacks (destroy one system, retreat), ships from neighbor systems will come to help when I attack a system with my champion and AI doesn't just blindly pile up ships on wormholes.. they retreat. I'm still playing with the same 7/7 AIs as always.

This is awesome.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: TechSY730 on November 20, 2012, 03:41:03 PM
Did AI suddenly get more intelligent? I bought this expansion and... AI troops don't suicide anymore. I've seen 1k+ ships just wandering around AI systems (NOT my border systems), hit-and-run attacks (destroy one system, retreat), ships from neighbor systems will come to help when I attack a system with my champion and AI doesn't just blindly pile up ships on wormholes.. they retreat. I'm still playing with the same 7/7 AIs as always.

This is awesome.

Yep. Keith has been working hard to give the AI new behaviors and better tactics.
As you can see, it is making the AI a much more interesting opponent, not to mention a bigger threat. ;)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on November 20, 2012, 04:14:58 PM
Yea, from time to time we give it a new edition of "101 Ways To Exterminate Humanity" ;)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on November 20, 2012, 04:16:43 PM
That's one of the biggest advantages of how we've been developing the game on an ongoing basis.  Each year we've added various new behaviors and tactics and abilities and so forth for the AI, so each year it's become more deadly and interesting.  The new threat fleets and such are certainly a major jump upwards. :)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Dichotomy on November 22, 2012, 01:57:08 AM
In the middle of a CPA, an AI tractor train picks up enough firepower to alert the planet they are carried to, freeing an EMP guardian, and triggering a Core Raid Engine...

Death followed swiftly.

Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Mánagarmr on November 22, 2012, 09:29:35 AM
In the middle of a CPA, an AI tractor train picks up enough firepower to alert the planet they are carried to, freeing an EMP guardian, and triggering a Core Raid Engine...

Death followed swiftly.


Gotta love them Etherjet kidnappers. Have had that happen too :P
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Faulty Logic on March 27, 2013, 03:02:03 PM
AI sent a force of cloaked neinzul shadow frigates through my black-hole enforced chokepoint to assassinate two back systems, causing an energy brownout. In the middle of a wave against my homeworld. I didn't die, but it was quite close.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on March 27, 2013, 03:12:01 PM
AI sent a force of cloaked neinzul shadow frigates through my black-hole enforced chokepoint to assassinate two back systems, causing an energy brownout. In the middle of a wave against my homeworld. I didn't die, but it was quite close.
Really?  I was considering adding "sneak" logic like that for a special kind of attack to keep players honest about their tachyon coverage, but I don't think I've ever actually told it to hold fire while crossing an enemy system to get to a different one.  Maybe it's just the old "if cloaked try to stay cloaked" logic Chris added ages ago.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on March 27, 2013, 03:13:20 PM
I think the logic was for them to not fire on anything except their AI-thread-chosen specific targets if they are cloaked, yeah.  So they wouldn't just fire on random things that they passed.  That was making cloaked ships pretty useless in the hands of the AI for a while there a couple of years ago.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Ygdrad on April 10, 2013, 08:52:54 AM
I'm still pretty new to the game and so was trying a 7/7 match with the AI type set to moderate. I decided to be very careful and only alert one planet at first since there were a lot of nasty ones near my homeworld. I enter one of my neighboring planets, and to my horror, the AI grabs a bunch of my ships with tractors and proceeds to pulling them through wormholes to a bunch of other systems, alerting them.

D:

Following that I got hit by a raiding force comprised of a mix of mark3 and 4 ships... never stood a chance.

Was the AI programmed to do horrible things like that or was it just trying to escape from my fleet and simply forgot it was dragging half of it along?
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Histidine on April 14, 2013, 07:19:31 AM
Was the AI programmed to do horrible things like that ...?
It does like to things like that, yes  ;) (For dealing with that specific problem in the future, select the tractored ships and press Delete to scrap them)

Oh, and welcome to AI War :D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Mánagarmr on April 14, 2013, 09:48:06 AM
Was the AI programmed to do horrible things like that or was it just trying to escape from my fleet and simply forgot it was dragging half of it along?
I seem to remember the "kidnapping" mechanic to be specifically coded for tractor-beam bearing vessels. But it's not doing it "to alert itself" in order to hit you with bigger ships. It's just doing it to deprive you of ships. However, the side effects can, as you've seen, be rather devastating :D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on April 14, 2013, 12:54:10 PM
Was the AI programmed to do horrible things like that or was it just trying to escape from my fleet and simply forgot it was dragging half of it along?
I seem to remember the "kidnapping" mechanic to be specifically coded for tractor-beam bearing vessels. But it's not doing it "to alert itself" in order to hit you with bigger ships. It's just doing it to deprive you of ships. However, the side effects can, as you've seen, be rather devastating :D

Actually, it's for both purposes -- alerting itself as well as depriving you of units.  It wouldn't drag them so far if it just wanted to deprive you of units.  I made them run over a number of planets specifically to make them more dastardly.  ;D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on April 14, 2013, 01:08:17 PM
I thought the 'depriving of units' came first, and once that accidentally went horribly wrong for someone, you got evil ideas.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on April 14, 2013, 01:09:41 PM
Yep!  It evolved over time.  There was no concept of alert when the original logic was coded, for instance.  That didn't come until at least a year later.  Prior to that the only way to get ships to abandon their guard posts was to kill the guard post.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Mánagarmr on April 14, 2013, 01:13:27 PM
I thought the 'depriving of units' came first, and once that accidentally went horribly wrong for someone, you got evil ideas.
One must be careful around here. Chris and Keith are scarily good at picking up evil ideas :D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on April 14, 2013, 01:52:11 PM
This is the arcen games community that willingly encourages the developers to make the game harder. I don't think we have anything to worry about.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Aklyon on April 14, 2013, 10:56:22 PM
I thought the 'depriving of units' came first, and once that accidentally went horribly wrong for someone, you got evil ideas.
One must be careful around here. Chris and Keith are scarily good at picking up evil ideas :D
Evil ideas and the occasional food-based golem derail. :P
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Oralordos on April 15, 2013, 02:19:53 AM
I thought the 'depriving of units' came first, and once that accidentally went horribly wrong for someone, you got evil ideas.
One must be careful around here. Chris and Keith are scarily good at picking up evil ideas :D
Evil ideas and the occasional food-based golem derail. :P
And ponies. Never forget the ponies. ;)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Faulty Logic on April 18, 2013, 01:35:08 PM
AI somehow (hacking glitch, I think) got a threatfleet of ~50 spire blade spawners, paired it with nemesis frigates, waited for an exo, and trashed my energy grid. Humanity did not survive.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Histidine on June 09, 2013, 05:47:44 AM
Wave of Youngling Shrikes attacks my homeworld. Defenders shoot back, kill some along with the Flagship accompanying them. Then the Shrikes run away through the wormhole.

I'm like "run away fools, you'll just self-attrition to death anyway... WAIT THEY'RE COMING BACK IT'S A TRAP"

They died anyway, and it seemed like the result of a bug in the attack logic, but it was still cool.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on June 09, 2013, 12:35:52 PM
Wave of Youngling Shrikes attacks my homeworld. Defenders shoot back, kill some along with the Flagship accompanying them. Then the Shrikes run away through the wormhole.

I'm like "run away fools, you'll just self-attrition to death anyway... WAIT THEY'RE COMING BACK IT'S A TRAP"

They died anyway, and it seemed like the result of a bug in the attack logic, but it was still cool.
This strikes me as cool almost human-like behavior. Granted, a pro gaming level player would not likely make that mistake, but the idea of "Oh shoot, this attack is NOT big enough" and running away... then realizing that the Neinzul ships will just die anyway and bringing the attack fleet back around is cool.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: ZaneWolfe on June 10, 2013, 04:40:07 PM
I thought the 'depriving of units' came first, and once that accidentally went horribly wrong for someone, you got evil ideas.
One must be careful around here. Chris and Keith are scarily good at picking up evil ideas :D
Evil ideas and the occasional food-based golem derail. :P
And ponies. Never forget the ponies. ;)
There can NEVER be enough pony. But I am sad at the lack of draconequus.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Kahuna on June 12, 2013, 04:56:30 PM
I guess this belongs here
Eye Bots are immune to Tachyon.. (http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,13352.msg151497.html#msg151497)
Quote
[...]So I got a counter attack on my home planet.. the wave spawned.. and the Mark III Eye Bots didn't care about my Tachyon Emitter nor the Scout Starship. Is it because of the Cloaking Booster x2? I wish Eye Bots were this good in player's hands too..

The Eye Bots destroy my Home Command Station every time even if I bring my fleet and try to focus the Eye Bots.[...]
[...]there's no counter those besides Counter-Missile Turrets and Miilitary Stations Mark III[...]
Are grav turrets just not cutting the mustard with these?
No because they decloak only when they're in range to shoot the command station. So it doesn't matter if getting into range takes 10 seconds or 10 minutes.
Decloak at range ---> 1 shot the Command Station.

EDIT: Tried the Mark II Tachyon Emitters too. Didn't work. I also tried tractoring them away with Mark I Riots.
What I mean is that gravity gives you more time to kill the ones your tachyon beams _are_ decloaking, which causes them to stop boosting the invisible ones, which causes those to be decloaked by your tachyon, so you kill those and they stop boosting, etc.
Aha. I didn't know they work like that^^ herp a derp.
Yes I am able to decloak some of them.
And I just tried that but without Gravitational Turrets^^ I just attacked the Counter Attack Wave with my fleet and easily destroyed all Eye Bots.
(http://i.imgur.com/JR1ZCRJ.jpg)

But before that.. I ALMOST managed to stop the wave the hard way. I did destroy all Eye Bot by tractoring them away with 3 Mark I Riots... the Command Station was left with about 130000 health... I thought I survived........ really... I was about to post here and say I stopped it "the hard way"!... and then I realized the Mark III Plasma Siege Starship would soon destroy the Command Station.
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA that's like a final fu from the AI
(http://i.imgur.com/nkCSpJw.jpg)

EDIT: As I said^^ I'm going learn and stop them without MilIII or Counter-Missiles.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Teal_Blue on June 18, 2013, 09:18:08 PM
Quick question for the Vengence of the Machine expansion real quick, just loaded it, but when i open the game it still shows only the first 4 expansions checked off, but doesn't list VotM. Am i missing something?

-Teal

Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on June 18, 2013, 09:59:22 PM
Quick question for the Vengence of the Machine expansion real quick, just loaded it, but when i open the game it still shows only the first 4 expansions checked off, but doesn't list VotM. Am i missing something?

If it shows the logo for the expansion on the main menu, you're all good!  It doesn't require a license key, so doesn't show on the license key menu.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Aklyon on June 18, 2013, 11:18:13 PM
So, a largeish multiplayer game. And we decided to try out astro trains, with Train Master. An hour in, there are trains certainly, but they were not the important part, no no. They were a distraction and cover for a raid II starship to sneak in and snipe off the player home that was in the middle (relatively) of all the others!

Sneaky AI.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Arc-3N-4B on June 18, 2013, 11:36:50 PM
So, I launch an attack to take an ARS on a particularly heavily fortified Mk4 planet. I succeed, mostly, and destroy a warp counterattack post in my latest multiplayer game with my friend. We have six champions.

So, of course, several thousand ships en-route to my homeworld.

Three minutes left on the timer, two waves are declared, each over a thousand ships. He sends his champions to deal with the wave, I rush to defend my territory.

Thirty seconds left on the counterattack timer, four enemy Nemesis units hit one of my outlying worlds.

Then the counterattack hits. Then the waves hit.

Then a CPA is declared.

Then, as I'm fighting off the AI, the Nemesis units take out enough of my planets to put me into a brownout.

I managed to save it, albeit at the cost of my home command station. They attacked from the ONE location not protected by all my defenses - right behind my home command.

I nuked them, to prevent them from rampaging around our territory and ending the game right then and there.

Ten minutes later, the CPA hit. We barely survived.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Teal_Blue on June 19, 2013, 01:40:26 PM
Quick question for the Vengence of the Machine expansion real quick, just loaded it, but when i open the game it still shows only the first 4 expansions checked off, but doesn't list VotM. Am i missing something?

If it shows the logo for the expansion on the main menu, you're all good!  It doesn't require a license key, so doesn't show on the license key menu.


Thanks!!

Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Arc-3N-4B on June 19, 2013, 11:42:51 PM
So, a CPA is declared in my latest game. Fairly low difficulty game, High-AIP playstyle. 5/5 Chivalric/Fortress Baron Chivalric/Entrenched Homeworlder.

Astro Trains 10 on both. On an X map.

And I'm in the middle.

CPA was about a thousand ships. I'm going incredibly starship-heavy [ie. "start with Zenith Devastator, get no other starships as a bonus ship, and then unlock every single starship and build all of them" heavy. Not kidding, even Scout Mk4s for the counter missile coverage]. I laugh at it with my friend, and I leave the computer for about ten seconds to get a drink as the CPA shows up. I have Core Missile, MLRS, and Needler turrets on pretty much every chokepoint world I've got.

It was then that I realized three things, very rapidly.

1. AI 2 had sent its' Special Forces after my starship fleet.

2. The AI did not forget what AI Plots I had on.

3. I forgot that AI 2 had Hunter 10 on. So, as my fleet faced 5 H/Ks, I barely managed to retreat with minimal losses. Thankfully the disassembler guardians didn't show up, and I was right near a wormhole.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on June 20, 2013, 01:32:40 AM
I guess this counts.

From an abandoned game (at least for now). I was up against experimentalist, shield ninny, among other things. The experimentalist kept shoving all of its decoy drones under the shield ninny's force fields. The decoy drones still attracted all fire, fruitlessly, into the force field, while special forces would batter me from other angles. Devious.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Arkillion on June 21, 2013, 03:46:43 PM
Wow dam you AI and dam myself.

I triggered a raid engine with my bomber/eye bot fleet while clearing a planet and it sent a core leech ship with the wave, bombers and eye bots being slow they all got eaten alive forming a nice little ai ball of full mark 1-4 eye bots and bombers. Right after my loss I notice a huge AI movement troop comming toward the choke point of my homeplanet, as I hastily get my ships back to defend it the newly created AI ball (of my own ships..) rushed an isolated planet which had a experimental engineer fab. "They stand no chance against my neinzul fortress + Mk5 MLRS " I tought. Nope... the filthy eye bots just sniped the command station..remocing supply from the planet....disabling forcefields and bombers shoved in.... while at the same time the ai striked my chokepoint, cutting the reinforcements.... ow ow ow
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on June 21, 2013, 03:48:47 PM
Wow dam you AI and dam myself.

ow ow ow

Those look like pull quotes for the front of the box for the game, don't you think?
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Arkillion on June 21, 2013, 11:32:29 PM
There's a box for Ai war ??? I'll take one instead of the graphic update ^^

And I would put "You lose" on the box too
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: LaughingThesaurus on June 22, 2013, 12:00:48 AM
I could see a bunch of more darkly colored enemy ships surrounding a home command station in a force field or something for the cover.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: x4000 on June 22, 2013, 08:40:02 AM
Hahaha. ;)

And yeah there were boxed copies you could buy in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, and Russia. Someone took a picture of it in their local game store in Germany; that was really cool. They just randomly stumbled on it, having already had the game for a while. This was back in 2010.

Been a long while though, and the company selling in GAS went bankrupt and wound up paying us nothing. Yay! ;)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Kahuna on June 22, 2013, 09:26:19 AM
Aww I want a physical copy of AI War and all expansions sooo bad! I would frame the boxes and worship them. Any way to get boxes? Can we order directly from Arcen?
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Vinraith on June 22, 2013, 12:29:39 PM
Aww I want a physical copy of AI War and all expansions sooo bad! I would frame the boxes and worship them. Any way to get boxes? Can we order directly from Arcen?

Matrix sells boxed versions of everything in their catalog, including the Alien Bundle. That doesn't have the last two expansions, though.

http://www.matrixgames.com/store/412/AI.War:.Alien.Bundle.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Coppermantis on June 22, 2013, 12:44:10 PM
Aww I want a physical copy of AI War and all expansions sooo bad! I would frame the boxes and worship them. Any way to get boxes? Can we order directly from Arcen?

Matrix sells boxed versions of everything in their catalog, including the Alien Bundle. That doesn't have the last two expansions, though.

http://www.matrixgames.com/store/412/AI.War:.Alien.Bundle.

Wait, that's real? I thought it was just a mockup for promotional purposes. That's pretty sick.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Kahuna on June 22, 2013, 01:07:03 PM
Aww I want a physical copy of AI War and all expansions sooo bad! I would frame the boxes and worship them. Any way to get boxes? Can we order directly from Arcen?

Matrix sells boxed versions of everything in their catalog, including the Alien Bundle. That doesn't have the last two expansions, though.

http://www.matrixgames.com/store/412/AI.War:.Alien.Bundle.
Oh wow that's awesome.. BUT.. is this website trustworthy? I'm always very skeptic when it comes to buying stuff online. Especially from websites I've never heard of. Have you bought stuff from that website (digital or physical) or do you know someone who has?

The price is 32,99€.. I've never ordered anything from outside my country. Is that the final price or will there be a shipping cost in addition to that?
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Tridus on June 22, 2013, 01:21:58 PM
International shipping usually costs extra. Their checkout process should tell you how much. Many countries also chart customs or local sales taxes on imported items too, and that can be handled a few ways.  UPS charges extra for brokerage fees and that covers it, the post office just charges me when I go to pick it up.

All this stuff is why digital distribution took over. It's so much cheaper and easier.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Vinraith on June 22, 2013, 01:41:35 PM
Aww I want a physical copy of AI War and all expansions sooo bad! I would frame the boxes and worship them. Any way to get boxes? Can we order directly from Arcen?

Matrix sells boxed versions of everything in their catalog, including the Alien Bundle. That doesn't have the last two expansions, though.

http://www.matrixgames.com/store/412/AI.War:.Alien.Bundle.
Oh wow that's awesome.. BUT.. is this website trustworthy? I'm always very skeptic when it comes to buying stuff online. Especially from websites I've never heard of. Have you bought stuff from that website (digital or physical) or do you know someone who has?

The price is 32,99€.. I've never ordered anything from outside my country. Is that the final price or will there be a shipping cost in addition to that?

I've bought quite a few things from Matrix, they're basically the wargame publisher these days. They're 100% trustworthy.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Vihermaali on June 23, 2013, 02:48:08 AM
So, I was getting ready to assault the first AI homeworld (Teleporter Turtle/Camoflauger). The only issue was, the world next to AI homeworld had..an interesting configuration.

Munitions command center, 5 shield guard posts + 2 mk V forcefields, 4 mk V counterattack outposts, some random guard posts, mk III fortress, mass driver, warhead interceptor, ion cannon plus massive amounts of ships. All in one spot. So there was 7 overlapping forcefields over this huge bundle of guard posts + command center + ships. I had to use hit-and-run artillery golem tactics to have even smallest chance of breaking that thing. My 1500 ship fleet could dish out about 200mil worth of damage before getting obliterated, so I could have just done a several hour grind by throwing fleet after fleet at the shields. Or, I used an artillery golem to take out shields.

It was incredibly awesome to see this very unique guard post configuration. I killed the homeworld eventually. Next task: try to break the 2k+ ship armada that has formed on 2nd homeworld and its neighbour worlds.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: ludsoe on June 30, 2013, 08:47:45 AM
Found this image lurking on my computer.
I remember lots of pain, and blood from this.

(http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz239/Ludsoe/Owwww_zps3652bfbb.png) (http://s831.photobucket.com/user/Ludsoe/media/Owwww_zps3652bfbb.png.html)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: LordSloth on July 01, 2013, 09:08:53 PM
So, I had a game with the Zenith Devourer on in 7.0. I figured the Cookie Monster would clean up just as many AI ships a it would my ships, and even more in my favor if I remembered to cower in transports.

Fun fact: The Devourer will alert Dire Guardian Lairs. This is especially fun when rampages with your fleet ships stop alerting DG Lairs with just a few minutes before they spawn.

Fun fact: Unplanned Dire Guardians make cross planet attacks from a Stealth Master and Feeding Parasite a lot more !!fun!!.

Looks like the AI found a counter to cheesing the Devourer. Watching those timers slowly count down about three minutes at a time outside your area of influence is quite scary.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: madcow on July 02, 2013, 04:16:13 PM
So I restarted playing AI war lately, and this song came up on my playlist not long afterwards, it rather amused me and felt fitting to toss out here ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNC61-OOPdA
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Lord Of Nothing on July 09, 2013, 01:36:53 PM
So I've gotten into the rather bad habit of ignoring non-nuclear AI-Eyes while raiding with my champions early game- because when you have modular forts, what harm could, say, a raid eye at 20AIP, do?
Well...
Can anyone tell me what this is equal to?
Mk4 Planet + Raid Eye + Widely spaced Guardposts + Spire Hammer AI type?




Oh yeah: Spire Battleships. Multiple Spire Battleships.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: The Sandwich on October 29, 2013, 01:13:38 PM
i got so engrossed in destroying a AI world that i didn't realize they had sent a sizable force against my home world. i went back there to build a colony ship and discovery my home world almost completely destroyed. i proceeded to end the game and wallow in my sadness.     
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on October 29, 2013, 01:19:07 PM
i got so engrossed in destroying a AI world that i didn't realize they had sent a sizable force against my home world. i went back there to build a colony ship and discovery my home world almost completely destroyed. i proceeded to end the game and wallow in my sadness.     
Another one for the AI's refrigerator :)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Draco18s on October 29, 2013, 01:32:31 PM
Found this image lurking on my computer.
I remember lots of pain, and blood from this.

Reminds me of this screenshot I took once:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=14770585
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on October 29, 2013, 02:20:53 PM
Found this image lurking on my computer.
I remember lots of pain, and blood from this.

Reminds me of this screenshot I took once:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=14770585
Oh, that was from back when the SF post had its original texture, I see.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Draco18s on October 29, 2013, 02:34:04 PM
Reminds me of this screenshot I took once:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=14770585
Oh, that was from back when the SF post had its original texture, I see.

Oh that is years old, yeah.
Aka "about three games ago." :P
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Jericho Rehling on December 30, 2013, 05:44:22 PM
So, while my fleet is blobbed around a SuperTerminal, trying to reduce my AIP from the series of planets I had to take after placing my Spire City (did not know that taking every planet around it was a requirement - a hub planet with 11 wormholes was a bad choice of location!), an exo-wave hit that planet. Now, I didn't pay it any mind - it was the cornerstone of my defenses, complete with a SuperFortress, a Black Hole Machine, mini-fortresses, and several Mark 5 Turret planetary caps. It was also connected to my homeworlds (I had 2.)

Ten seconds later, You Have Lost flashes across my screen, while I was watching the SuperTerminal, deeming it more of a threat.

My last autosave was during the assault, and it revealed that the AI wave brought a single Raid Starship of a high mark with them, and it somehow nullified my Black Hole Machine and, while the rest of the assault force went for that world's command center, it slipped through the wormhole to my home command center and destroyed it in two shots, before that world's turrets could stop it.

I was... Impressed. I haven't been this utterly unprepared for my defeat since I encountered my first necromancer in Dwarf Fortress.

And that was how I lost my first completed game of AI War this morning.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Draco18s on December 30, 2013, 06:38:56 PM
Raids are black hole immune.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: TechSY730 on December 30, 2013, 06:43:52 PM
My last autosave was during the assault, and it revealed that the AI wave brought a single Raid Starship of a high mark with them, and it somehow nullified my Black Hole Machine and, while the rest of the assault force went for that world's command center, it slipped through the wormhole to my home command center and destroyed it in two shots, before that world's turrets could stop it.

Raid Starships are nasty little buggers all-right, especially in AI hands. The AI seems to have a knack for slipping in raid starships when and where you least expect them. ;)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Bognor on December 30, 2013, 10:55:08 PM
I haven't been this utterly unprepared for my defeat since I encountered my first necromancer in Dwarf Fortress.
Funny over 50% (http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,897.msg111431.html#msg111431) of the posts on these forums come from minions of Armok ;)

Grav Turrets + Sniper Turrets will save you from Raid Starships.  The Snipers cannot be out-run and will pierce their armor, bypass their radar dampening, and get a big bonus against their ultra-light hulls.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Draco18s on December 31, 2013, 08:59:10 AM
I haven't been this utterly unprepared for my defeat since I encountered my first necromancer in Dwarf Fortress.
Funny over 50% (http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,897.msg111431.html#msg111431) of the posts on these forums come from minions of Armok ;)

That post missed me. :D
(The percentage seems to have gone down a bit, though; I can only find 25%)
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Lancefighter on January 01, 2014, 06:15:52 AM
probably neglecting to count silly people like me ;)

But really, a lot of new people, and a lot of posts have happened since then..
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Bognor on January 01, 2014, 07:15:53 AM
probably neglecting to count silly people like me ;)

But really, a lot of new people, and a lot of posts have happened since then..
Even without you, after adding Draco and Anklyon and Volatar and a bunch of others I found by searching "dorf", it's still clear that well over 50% of all posts on these forums have been made by DF fans.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Saya on January 08, 2014, 07:49:39 AM
So,
Steam achievements hunting, 120 planets, X shaped, trains, resistances, marauders, shark, hybrids, advanced hybrids... you get the picture.
both AI on diff 7, vanilla, protector starship as starting bonus for maximum cheese.

For some reason I thought going for the Spire city early would make things easier due to added firepower. First mistake.
Trying advanced hybrids for the first time with so much already enabled was the second mistake.

First Spire city secured, chokepoint ready, I'm about to start pushing.
Spire exo declare I stick the fleet around as a normal wave will happen about 30 sec after the exo.
Exo timer reach 0, nothing happen, regular wave timer reach 0 as well, about 200 ships, easy peasy.
Tons of AI ship start jumping in, exo probably ran into traffic or something, it's okay I can take it, hybrids and friends jump as well, Boy I'm glad to have the fleet around, It could go better but everything holding.
Then a Black Widow golem decide to show up and take my ships on an adventure.
Fleet can't hold anymore, defense starting to fall apart, I retreat what I can and hope for the best.
Command station destroyed. Suddenly remember I had both shark enabled for the achievements. AI engage ramming speed and crush the pathetic line of defense I build in a hurry.
YOU DI-wait wrong game YOU HAVE LOST.

Somewhere in space I can hear Shodan and HK-47 making jokes about meatbags.

Also first post despite owning the game before the first expansion was even a thing yay \o/.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Draco18s on January 08, 2014, 10:59:29 AM
Somewhere in space I can hear Shodan and HK-47 making jokes about meatbags.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4URGepaLIzk
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Alex Heartnet on May 07, 2014, 06:44:58 AM
I just found out what Neinzul Bomber Clusters and EMP Guardians do.  At the same time.

After destroying the bomber cluster and seeing all those bombers pour out, I order my forces to retreat thinking that I would just wait the 4 minutes for the bombers to kill themselves.  I had sufficient defenses.  Then the EMP guardian entered my system as well and everything stopped working.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Faulty Logic on May 17, 2014, 10:42:14 PM
I thought I'd have time to get the fleet home in time. That's when the AI routed the Shark plot through the Warp Jumping subroutine, and a black widow golem appeared literally in range of the home ff net. Death ensued.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: TechSY730 on June 07, 2014, 03:32:10 AM
Wow. My current co-op game reminded me just how good the AI is at split attacks and effective use of raiding ships (raid starships, infiltration guardians, etc).

So many times we managed to overcome a big force on one planet, just for the AI to sneak in a raid starship somewhere else and take out a Z power generator or something else important.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: GhoulMX on September 08, 2014, 06:36:20 PM
I think I know who is behind Skynet!!!   =D Great game yes indeed. I still have to expirience what you all are talking about. I cant wait to have my moment! >D
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: TheVampire100 on September 08, 2014, 06:59:33 PM
The best part of this AI is that it's not predicitble. In most games you can always tell what action triggers what action and you can force your way through the predicitible AI.
In AI War however the AI analyzes your behaviour and and realizes when you try to use the same tactic.

I've never seen such a good AI in any game without being the unfair "I know what you do before you do it" AI that some games use.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: ludsoe on September 11, 2014, 03:01:37 PM
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/15be/sl72zid2e1iz3q94g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/sl72zid2e1iz3q9/thatsjustwrong.jpg)

Lets take out Nomad 1! Lets see oh its shielded by 5 shield guard posts, Ill just use bombers.... Oh wait Swarms of fighters. Lets use Plasma siege! Oh wait 3 anti starship guard posts. Ill bring them in cloaked! Oh the command center will cloak them. This is just wrong.... Who taught the Ai to develop such a evil defense strategy. Its impossible to assault without taking on HEAVY losses.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: keith.lamothe on September 11, 2014, 03:06:58 PM
Warheads?
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: RockyBst on September 11, 2014, 05:14:55 PM
Core Warhead Interceptors (Admittedly, fairly easy to handle)

This is a fun game!

EDIT: Oh wait this isn't a homeworld, just one with a tachyon command station. Missiles will still likely get blasted out of the sky, so I suggest either an artillery golem or some futzing with spirecraft jumpships.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: orzelek on September 12, 2014, 03:08:32 PM
Thats a "nice" Rude Gesture and on a nomad :D

Grats on nice rng meeting ludsoe ;)

If you can enter it far from this blob I'd recommend healthy dose of snipers. If you have spiders around they will be glad to join the party. Only requirement is to get it into supply but thats quite doable with nomad.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Kahuna on September 13, 2014, 02:53:53 PM
Lets take out Nomad 1! Lets see oh its shielded by 5 shield guard posts, Ill just use bombers.... Oh wait Swarms of fighters. Lets use Plasma siege! Oh wait 3 anti starship guard posts. Ill bring them in cloaked! Oh the command center will cloak them. This is just wrong.... Who taught the Ai to develop such a evil defense strategy. Its impossible to assault without taking on HEAVY losses.
Beachhead it with Sniper and Missile Turrets and use Mark >= II Needler Turrets to bring down the shields.
It should be fairly effective and cheap.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: TechSY730 on September 14, 2014, 10:48:54 PM
Cross Planet Attack + Exo wave + normal wave = "You have lost"...

...I knew I should of built more warheads. :P
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Kahuna on September 14, 2014, 11:52:29 PM
Cross Planet Attack + Exo wave + normal wave = "You have lost"...

...I knew I should of built more warheads. :P
Nowadays I always keep full caps of Warheads at all times. Except early game of course. Sine Mark I Cloaker Starship can only cloak 20 Warheads I always unlock Mark IIs.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: zoutzakje on December 25, 2014, 06:11:16 PM
When the AI deploys just enough of it's strategic reserve to keep me busy long enough for that Raid engine to send another wave before my fleet can reach it.

dumb luck or devious tactics...
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: babautz on January 14, 2015, 10:18:45 AM
I'm in my third coop game. Suddenly i hear an explosion noise. And another. And another. Every 20 seconds or so there is this strange explosion noise and me and my coop partner are confused. What is happening? We see no alerts or messages, nothing bad is happening in our systems. Is this a bug? I was googling like mad, but didn't find anything useful. So we decided to just ignore it for now and continue playing.
After a while we noticed our scouts are dying and suddenly we get notfications about something called "EMP Guardian". What happened is there was this small fleet with said guardian. They went from AI System to AI System, fired the guardians weapons and proceded to kill all the scouts they could find. That devious little smart bastard! I love it!

But a small advice to the developers: New players are really confused by those noises. We were like: What does the game try to tell us? Do we have to do something? Is the game bugged? Maybe the game shouldnt play those explosion noises, if the player cant even see the Guardian.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Coppermantis on January 14, 2015, 11:23:21 PM
I say keep them. They were enough to alert you that something was wrong, weren't they? I find them useful to let me know if my ships are being destroyed somewhere.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Aklyon on January 15, 2015, 09:18:49 AM
Aren't EMP guardians the other kind that gets a little popup message when they spawn, like Warpgate guardians?
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: Mánagarmr on January 15, 2015, 01:33:12 PM
Aren't EMP guardians the other kind that gets a little popup message when they spawn, like Warpgate guardians?
Only think they pop up when they are on the planet you are watching.
Title: Re: This AI is awesome.
Post by: undefind on October 13, 2015, 02:55:39 AM
just got back into the game after about 2 years and thought i would chime in.

EMP guardians plus sniper guardians=instant death. seriously, i was a good way through an 8/8 game and gave up after i realized this combo meant certain death. the only way i managed to counter it was by putting my fleet inside transports on a planet that i thought the ai would hit next, then unloading the transport right after the guardians showed up. i still lost the command station but the attacking force was dealt with. unfortunately, this didn't stop the ai from doing it again, and again. so, not wanting to deal with it i just gave up.