The Next Expansion

[Philo]

I was drunk yesterday ^^

[Orelius]

Well, that was pretty articulate and full of great ideas!  I've never seen someone who could write so well while drunk.

I think that the storyline you mentioned would best be fit as a prequel to AI War (anywhere from 800 years and a few weeks before the events of the normal game), and, well, it sounds perfect.

The "civil war" mentioned  in-game doesn't necessarily mean only two factions, there could have been two large superpowers and a scattering of small states throughout.  It would make sense that those two superpowers would have been the ones to develop the AI technologies that are the cause of the events of AI War.  I guess it could be tied into the normal gameplay formula by having you play as an underdog of a number of factions, with significantly less forces compared to the two "superpowers".  In this way, it could be pretty much the same, as the two AIs are too busy dealing with each other to focus on you too much, sending occasional waves, etc.

The boundaries of the factions would fluctuate over time, and with diplomacy, and conquest, your faction would rise to the strength of the superpowers, at which point, the AIs turn and curbstomp everyone.
This could even be tied into the normal game by having it transition smoothly into AI War, allowing you to keep research, ships, etc. at the cost of a higher AIP.

Yeah, I guess that would be a nice expansion to add.  I can see multiplayer as a form of competitive mode here - with multiple small states each under the control of a player.

[Philo]

Well, I was thinking it more in the lines of this being played just along with the normal game.

On the other hand. If it was really like a prequel then it would open up many more possibilities as story writing and gameplay goes. But then after one playthrough there would be no point in going through it again. I'd really like it more if it was integrated into the normal gameplay somehow.

[Orelius]

I disagree that there wouldn't be any point of replaying it.  It's just like saying that there's no point to playing the fallen spire campaign after finishing it once.  I'm sure that a prequel campaign like this would have plenty of replay value, given enough story writing, choices, etc.

It's something like an expansion of the gameplay, except that the expansion comes first, and then the game continues from there.

[Cyborg]

Factions/diplomacy is a different game. I don't want to grind reputation or use some broken diplomatic scheme. Civilization 5, sword of the stars,.. I could go on, it's all broken. The fact of the matter is that diplomacy has always been a shallow mechanic because you cannot truly emulate the behavior of other players or the human mind. It ends up being something where the player ends up figuring out how to manipulate the AI diplomatic behavior in order to get what they want. You may as well be grinding reputation in a MMO.

Please no.

[soMe_RandoM]

if PvP would be consider at all it whould have to be PAIvPAI
then it morphs into PPVAIAI, once ai turns on P

[Philo]

The reason Spire campaign is replayable is because it integrates with the base game. Otherwise yeah, there would be no replayability.

And I'm also a bit skeptical how the Diplomacy thing would ever work. Since as someone said, Civilization etc. all have broken diplomacy. The diplomacy in these games is just crap tbh and just a chore.

But I'm not really talking about diplomacy here. I'm talking about a storyline where you just choose which path you take and the storyline progresses that way. In the "Immersive Storyline" there would be no respect points system. Since every mission would advance the storyline in one way or other. And as a bonus you will unlock new ships or the other faction might randomly aid you in your time of need.
It's basically like the spire campaign except nonlinear storyline, and more scripted with varying outcomes for the factions and with more varying mission types.

[Orelius]

I agree, diplomacy in the civilization sense doesn't work out at all.

I guess that what you're talking about is probably the best way to go, but to make one of those with enough variability to last through several playthroughs would require too much writing that can be done within a reasonable time span.

[Philo]

I agree, diplomacy in the civilization sense doesn't work out at all.

I guess that what you're talking about is probably the best way to go, but to make one of those with enough variability to last through several playthroughs would require too much writing that can be done within a reasonable time span.

Yeah that's true. I think just three lines would be good enough. I mean in the end just one compelling storyline with varying missions would be enough. But three would be better if your looking for great replayability. I mean three storylines is pretty doable concerning this would be the only thing the expansion contains right? Along with the special buildings and ships that are used in the storyline.

What I'm really looking for is the missions that deviate from normal play and then some benefits or cons to the player that come with the storyline.
It would be just epic if the faction came to your help randomly with their whole fleet comprised of their own special fleet units.

[Cyborg]

I wouldn't mind another campaign or another way to win. Or missions that you have to accomplish for one of the factions that give you some kind of reward for your efforts.

What I don't want to see though, is some tedious missions that do not have the challenge of the spire campaign. Think about it- if the spire campaign was not challenging, all you have really done is created a time sink without valuable game play. It just takes more time to get all the good stuff and you automatically win the game.

I love final fantasy, but they commit this gameplay crime in every entry of the series. If you cannot win, all you have to do is grind out levels until you are mighty enough to overcome what's in your way. That doesn't take skill or thought process, it just takes time. The spire campaign adds valuable gameplay and challenging missions that you are not guaranteed to be victorious over, and I think that's why it works as well as it does.

[x4000]

Don't worry, we have the same feelings about grinding -- no way on that mechanic.

[Sunshine!]

Then what's the big deal with making us grind asteroids for resources? 

(I joke.)

[x4000]

 

[Nalgas]

I love final fantasy, but they commit this gameplay crime in every entry of the series. If you cannot win, all you have to do is grind out levels until you are mighty enough to overcome what's in your way. That doesn't take skill or thought process, it just takes time.

While that's mostly the case, it's not strictly true.  FF8, for example, got harder as you leveled up, because all the enemies did, too, and at some point they introduced harder ones in some areas or the old ones would get stronger abilities.  If you kept going past that and got all the brokenly powerful spells and whatnot, then it eventually got easier again, but there's a solid chunk of "grinding levels == harder game" in there.

They also used a variation on that idea in The Last Remnant (which is tragically underrated, at least the PC version (not the "obvious beta" 360 version)), which is probably the most fun I've had with a Squeenix game since before the PS2 came out.  The more time you spend dicking around instead of saving the world, the more powerful the enemies get, which requires using more skill and thinking to get past than otherwise.  It does have a nearly MMO degree of grindiness for some of the more obscure materials for building/upgrading rare or unique equipment, though...

Anyway, yeah, that is what makes the Fallen Spire stuff actually work, because to get the absurdly powerful rewards, you have to learn to play the game significantly differently and contend with equally absurdly powerful stuff on the AI's side.  It almost becomes a different game, in a way, with so much constant, brutal, direct confrontation instead of the usual skulking around trying not to piss it off too much.  It still has the same basic mechanics underneath, but the way it plays/feels is different enough to add some nice variety.

[Cyborg]

While that's mostly the case, it's not strictly true.  FF8, for example, got harder as you leveled up, because all the enemies did, too

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