Author Topic: The new Hybrids  (Read 11672 times)

Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: The new Hybrids
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2012, 08:37:21 am »
Also make all ships in a three-planet radius auto-attack it regardless of their stance or power mode.

EVEN THE ENGINEERS.

Edit: No, wait, ESPECIALLY the engineers. They can repair it so that the beatings may continue for even longer.
The beatings shall continue
until morale improves!

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: The new Hybrids
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2012, 11:16:13 am »
Make it a massive horse with millions of Hp and give the player the ability to attack it while still in construction!
http://worms.wikia.com/wiki/Concrete_Donkey
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: The new Hybrids
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2012, 12:33:38 pm »
Ah, so there is a separate ship type for Super Hybrids. Good to know you didn't hard-code the "hybrid patrol, annoy, and other stuff" commands to only work with a single ship type.
I'm assuming they are beefier, stronger, and can take more stuff from the hybrid modules than normal hybrids.
Also, as mentioned, they are currently the only ones allowed to spawn "constructors" for buildings.

I'm going to have to load up my game, check the reference pages, and see just how much stronger they are.

Did so.  :o

These things only spawn when advanced hybrids are turned on, right?


Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: The new Hybrids
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2012, 12:51:11 pm »
Ah, so there is a separate ship type for Super Hybrids. Good to know you didn't hard-code the "hybrid patrol, annoy, and other stuff" commands to only work with a single ship type.
I'm assuming they are beefier, stronger, and can take more stuff from the hybrid modules than normal hybrids.
Also, as mentioned, they are currently the only ones allowed to spawn "constructors" for buildings.

I'm going to have to load up my game, check the reference pages, and see just how much stronger they are.

Did so.  :o

These things only spawn when advanced hybrids are turned on, right?
No, they're for both, but there's only one at a time.
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: The new Hybrids
« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2012, 01:01:05 pm »

Did so.  :o

These things only spawn when advanced hybrids are turned on, right?
No, they're for both, but there's only one at a time.

OK, that's good. I'm on normal hybrids; I think I can take on one of them at a time.
Dealing with an army of them would be...interesting...

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: The new Hybrids
« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2012, 01:02:32 pm »
Dealing with an army of them would be...interesting...
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: The new Hybrids
« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2012, 01:04:35 pm »
Dealing with an army of them would be...interesting...


...Advanced hybrids didn't specifically try to attack with massed super hyrbids before, did it?


What have I done?  :o

Offline orzelek

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Re: The new Hybrids
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2012, 03:18:50 pm »
Dealing with an army of them would be...interesting...


...Advanced hybrids didn't specifically try to attack with massed super hyrbids before, did it?


What have I done?  :o

The usual.. gave keith a new idea for sinister plan  8)

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: The new Hybrids
« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2012, 03:38:19 pm »
Stop giving him sinister ideas! :D He's the brain behind all evil AI subplots :P
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: The new Hybrids
« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2012, 03:42:03 pm »
Stop giving him sinister ideas! :D He's the brain behind all evil AI subplots :P
Not so!  Chris came up with Beachheads.
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Offline Wanderer

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Re: The new Hybrids
« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2012, 10:42:02 pm »
Advanced Hybrids.  Hm.  Intewesting.

Alright, for full disclosure I popped up a 7/7 map with Dyson and 2x Advanced Hybrids, and no fog of war at all.  I wanted to see these new Hybrids in action.  I've also got Golems-Hard on.  I'm still working my way down to the new Black Widow, before you ask.  :)

Alright, a couple of things noted.

1) I didn't realize the Dyson sphere wouldn't do a blasted thing until you got to it.  Good to know.
2) Super Hybrid ISN'T that bad-ass.  Oh, he's nasty, don't get me wrong.  But really he's a 4x hp hybrid with better shields and guns... and 2:30 regeneration time.   :o

However, a few things of note...
1) Is Super-Hybrid-dude supposed to duck himself into carrier guardians?!  I mean, he's smart, but that was unexpected!
2) I wasn't warned of super-hybrid until he had already appeared.
3) His mechanics are confusing.  I took Youngling Tigers as my first unit.  I've been using them as streaming death into any hybrid spawnable world in reach, and smacking them around, and it doesn't appear hybrids spawn much in deep space.  Does super-hybrid just appear no matter what after about 4-4:30, or is that an evolution?  If it's an evolution, is there a max of 1 or can a bunch of these puppies get there?

...

And a curiousity.  Can Advanced Hybrid activity result if I take out super-hybrid?  I want to see the last piece of the puzzle so I'm not sure if I should pop this little guy.  He's at about 15% when he went and hid in the carrier.
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: The new Hybrids
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2012, 03:49:36 am »
Stop giving him sinister ideas! :D He's the brain behind all evil AI subplots :P
Not so!  Chris came up with Beachheads.
Those are truly horrible. The first time I faced them they appeared on my single chokepoint borderworld. Needless to say, it was dependant on turrets and forcefields. I died. Horribly. To the sound of exploding pods.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: The new Hybrids
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2012, 10:01:55 am »
1) I didn't realize the Dyson sphere wouldn't do a blasted thing until you got to it.  Good to know.
The antagonizer will cause it to skip the "not doing anything because the player has never been here" check, fyi.

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2) Super Hybrid ISN'T that bad-ass.  Oh, he's nasty, don't get me wrong.  But really he's a 4x hp hybrid with better shields and guns... and 2:30 regeneration time.   :o
Regen time is probably the same as normal hybrids (I don't remember changing it).  Anyway: yea, he's not all that in combat, he's just significantly stronger and can take missions standard hybrids cannot.

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1) Is Super-Hybrid-dude supposed to duck himself into carrier guardians?!  I mean, he's smart, but that was unexpected!
Goodness, I didn't expect that either.  I had no idea units even had logic to hide like that when hurt (other than maybe the neinzul younglings and regen chambers... just checked the code, and transports like the carrier guardian, not the carrier, are any-type-regenerators and other units will try to regen there; it'd be pretty funny if the avenger did that).  Anyway, while he's in there his logic is probably not processing at all, which is basically a bug.  On the other hand, he'll eventually pop back out when healed.  So I dunno if that needs fixed :)

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2) I wasn't warned of super-hybrid until he had already appeared.
Yea, you won't get an alert until he exists, but that's just the beginning of the dangerous stuff.

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3) His mechanics are confusing.  I took Youngling Tigers as my first unit.  I've been using them as streaming death into any hybrid spawnable world in reach, and smacking them around, and it doesn't appear hybrids spawn much in deep space.  Does super-hybrid just appear no matter what after about 4-4:30, or is that an evolution?  If it's an evolution, is there a max of 1 or can a bunch of these puppies get there?
Each time a hybrid gains maturity XP a certain amount gets added to a central "bank" of points (the amount is much higher if the hybrid is at max maturity already), and when the bank gets big enough it can cash in a bunch of those points to spawn a super hybrid.  But it can't do that if there's already a super hybrid in play.  In the future there'll probably be more than one super hybrid type and it could have 1 of each, or possibly more than 1 of certain types, etc.  The super-hybrid spawn always happens on an AI Homeworld, iirc.

So killing hybrids slows down the process, but new hybrids spawn every 25 minutes (1 each from each hybrid spawner, and there's 1 of those seeded at the start on every mkIV or mkV world), and maturity XP ticks up every 10 seconds, so you're not going to be able to completely stop the super ones from spawning without taking out all the hybrids and hybrid spawners (which means no more hybrids at all that game)

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And a curiousity.  Can Advanced Hybrid activity result if I take out super-hybrid?
If the bank has enough there'll be another one almost instantly; otherwise it will take a bit of time to recharge, but it's not the end as long as there's at least one hybrid or hybrid spawner (though that would be a verrrrry slow process).

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I want to see the last piece of the puzzle so I'm not sure if I should pop this little guy.  He's at about 15% when he went and hid in the carrier.
It will delay things if you kill him.  Of course, from the player's perspective, that's the point :)  Kind of like with other hybrid things: if you can stay on top of things, harass them, and not let them do their own thing for too long they remain a manageable threat.  If allowed to fulfill their plans, however...
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: The new Hybrids
« Reply #43 on: February 03, 2012, 10:13:24 am »
1) Is Super-Hybrid-dude supposed to duck himself into carrier guardians?!  I mean, he's smart, but that was unexpected!
Goodness, I didn't expect that either.  I had no idea units even had logic to hide like that when hurt (other than maybe the neinzul younglings and regen chambers... just checked the code, and transports like the carrier guardian, not the carrier, are any-type-regenerators and other units will try to regen there; it'd be pretty funny if the avenger did that).  Anyway, while he's in there his logic is probably not processing at all, which is basically a bug.  On the other hand, he'll eventually pop back out when healed.  So I dunno if that needs fixed :)

It seems that things that are logically too big to fit in the relatively small looking carrier guardian (basically, certain spire bonus ships, guardians, starships, and bigger) should be forbidden from entering them.

All transports and carriers should of course be disallowed from entering carriers. (As much fun as "carrierception" would be, it makes no sense)

And speaking of "reatreating at low health into a regenerator" behavior, it seems a bit iffy for the AI's ships, especially with younglings. They frequently forget to retreat to something that can heal them, and in the case of younglings, they typically forget to retreat to a nearby planet with a neinzul regenerator (if there is one), and often forget to even if it is on the same planet.

EDIT: The starships, guadians, etc not being allowed to enter carrier guardians is for carrier guardians only. Regular AI carriers are quite huge, so basically everything but the largest stuff (golems, hunter-killers, motherships, etc) should let in.

Also, when I said all transports and carriers be immune to transporting/carriering, I meant that on top of the existing transport restrictions.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 01:41:03 pm by techsy730 »

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: The new Hybrids
« Reply #44 on: February 03, 2012, 11:11:36 am »
All transports and carriers should of course be disallowed from entering carriers. (As much fun as "carrierception" would be, it makes no sense)
That would add a third possible outcome to the game: "win", "lose", and "bag of holding".
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