The early game

[TechSY730]

If people want, fighters can keep their heavy bonus and trade their ultra-heavy bonus, instead of the other way around as it was in my original proposal.

[Draco18s]

Where would you move the command-grade bonus damage, though? Frigates I guess is the only other choice, as putting it on fighters would just be silly.

Oh?


(Admittedly that's more Fighter > Fortress)

[BobTheJanitor]

Touché, good sir.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcL6DwSufMI

"Can't we board it up, or put some plywood over it or something?"

[keith.lamothe]

One of the first things the AI was taught was NO EXHAUST PORTS!!!

[Draco18s]

Its more that fighters are devilishly good at evading command station defenses, as they're so small.

Anyone see Babylon 5?  (God, I sure hope so).  When the station was attacked it took more damage from single-pilot fighters than it did from cruiser class ships.

[TechSY730]

So then should fighter get the ultra-heavy or the command-station hull bonus?

[chemical_art]

So then should fighter get the ultra-heavy or the command-station hull bonus?

Going with command-grade, simply because I don't want to see fighters chewing up forts. Bombers really need to that extra damage for they are the only unit who can survive forts and without that extra damage it would take ages to bring them down.

[Draco18s]

So then should fighter get the ultra-heavy or the command-station hull bonus?

Going with command-grade, simply because I don't want to see fighters chewing up forts. Bombers really need to that extra damage for they are the only unit who can survive forts and without that extra damage it would take ages to bring them down.

Agreed.  Forts should be killed by bombers, the Death Star example was just pertinent (even though the Death Star is more equivalent of a Fortress than a command station).

[BobTheJanitor]

Anyone see Babylon 5?  (God, I sure hope so).  When the station was attacked it took more damage from single-pilot fighters than it did from cruiser class ships.

Everyone should see Babylon 5. If someone hasn't they should go get the dvds right now, watch every episode, and then come back. We'll wait.

[chemical_art]

So then should fighter get the ultra-heavy or the command-station hull bonus?

Going with command-grade, simply because I don't want to see fighters chewing up forts. Bombers really need to that extra damage for they are the only unit who can survive forts and without that extra damage it would take ages to bring them down.

Agreed.  Forts should be killed by bombers, the Death Star example was just pertinent (even though the Death Star is more equivalent of a Fortress than a command station).

That fighter used a "bomber" weapon to bring down the fort, so to speak, so I think bombers are better even then!

[TechSY730]

Okay, so we have the command station bonus going from the bomber to the fighter. What bonus should the bomber get or trade for, if any, in return?

Also, should the heavy bonus be moved to the frigate? If so, same question.

[Draco18s]

What are the bonuses currently held by the fighter (and frigate)?

[chemical_art]

Okay, so we have the command station bonus going from the bomber to the fighter. What bonus should the bomber get or trade for, if any, in return?

Also, should the heavy bonus be moved to the frigate? If so, same question.

Hang on, why does the fighter get the command station bonus? I thought the concept up for grabs was "heavy"? Command station hull is used for only a select few situations (Player command stations, AI eye, and AI stations. Maybe others?). Imagine how easy it would be for a swarm of fighters to take down AI eyes, or even the AI homeworld with the bonus given to fighters. They are already king of fleet dps for the triangle ships in fleet action. I would say remove the bonus entirely, but while AI stations have so much health there has to be some kind of guaranteed ship option to destroy them.

Also:

What particualar kinds of units use heavy hull exactly? I know some starships do, but what else does?

[TechSY730]

Okay, so we have the command station bonus going from the bomber to the fighter. What bonus should the bomber get or trade for, if any, in return?

Also, should the heavy bonus be moved to the frigate? If so, same question.

Hang on, why does the fighter get the command station bonus? I thought the concept up for grabs was "heavy"? Command station hull is used for only a select few situations (Player command stations, AI eye, and AI stations. Maybe others?). Imagine how easy it would be for a swarm of fighters to take down AI eyes, or even the AI homeworld with the bonus given to fighters. They are already king of fleet dps for the triangle ships in fleet action. I would say remove the bonus entirely, but while AI stations have so much health there has to be some kind of guaranteed ship option to destroy them.

Also:

What particualar kinds of units use heavy hull exactly? I know some starships do, but what else does?

Well, having the bomber have both structural AND command-station bonuses is a little op. This is what we are trying to fix. The heavy bonus is a lesser issue.

Having none of the triangle ships having a bonus against command station hulls is an intriguing concept. It would help to encourage the use of bomber starships and siege starships (both of such have a high enough dps to take down most command centers pretty quickly, even without bonuses)

[chemical_art]

Well, having the bomber have both structural AND command-station bonuses is a little op. This is what we are trying to fix. The heavy bonus is a lesser issue.

Having none of the triangle ships having a bonus against command station hulls is an intriguing concept. It would help to encourage the use of bomber starships and siege starships (both of such have a high enough dps to take down most command centers pretty quickly, even without bonuses)

My main worry about that lost damage against command grade was exclusively for the MK V planets of the AI. I was was wondering how difficult it would be to destroy it with no command-station bonuses. I have yet to play that part in game, so I couldn't tell you for sure. In theory, any successful methods I could think of all involved trump cards of some sort such as golem / spireships and/or FS. Can the 40 million structure really be defeated assuming all it's core guard posts were gone if you did not get another bomber-type ship? How about if there was still defended by the many reinforcements of the homeworld?

On a related note, also examined MK V core defenses. I concluded all but one are weak to either the bomber and friagate as its bonuses are right now, with the frigate doing extra damage to very many.


I also noticed the Cross Wave guard post having 100K armor. Really?!?