Teleporters may sometimes go through forcefields?

[Haagenti]

In one of my game, I have a separate section of three planets, connected to the universe by one wormhole. On the outside of that wormhole, I have a level I forcefield, completely covering that wormhole.

In one game (I have no save) a teleporter managed to somehow enter that section (the forcefields have never been down due to energy problems) and attack a command station on one of the three planets.

Perhaps (the AI never builds forcefields on wormholes) teleporters can move through them?

And perhaps the AI should build forcefields on the wormholes leading to their home planet?

[x4000]

This whole forcefields-on-wormholes thing is something I am considering nerfing in general.  For teleporters, if they are moving directly to a target such as a wormhole, and that wormhole is under a forcefield, the current mechanics would let them get past.  They can only pop in for an instant before the forcefield repels them, but based on the instantly-to-location nature of teleporters that is enough for them to get caught in the wormhole and sucked through...

[Kjara]

One possible minor nerf to the whole forcefields and wormholes idea is to make there be enough min distance between the wormhole and the forcefield.  Make it close enough that the forcefield can cover the wormhole, but far enough that you only have to take the forcefield down to about 80% to uncover the wormhole.

[x4000]

Yeah, that could work -- I had it so that the forcefields shut off when covering the wormhole at all, but this would also work.  For now I'm just waiting to see how things go, though, since other recent changes have probably made this mostly moot.

[Haagenti]

If this gets truly nerfed I would be interested how people defend against a raid of 2000 Raiders without corking the wormhole. These raids occur in hour 2 or 3 in my AI8 game.

I can't:
- freeze them: They go straight through tractor beams
- kill them fast enough with mobile ships: 170 I fighters make a dent in them, but not a big dent.  I can't build enough mercenary fighters at that time (and I need my regular II fighters for my combat fleet). Bombers and cruisers get massacred. Not enough knowledge to also afford III fighters (otherwise other raids will wipe me out: I need the turrets below)
- kill them fast enough with turrets: My 170 III Short Range and 170 III Missiles don't come close in taking them out fast enough. More will help but not enough.
- kill them with mines as I don't have enough mines (low ship cap, expensive to use for one-shotters)
- slow them down: I do not have enough Knowledge to afford Grav Turrets as well. I probably need III Gravs to slow them down enough to allow my turrets and fighters to do their Holy Cleansing.

I could:
- stop them on the Home Orbital: encasing the Home Orbital in multiple Forcefields and building a vast turret base next to it. But this will expose all my harvesters and planets. My economy would collapse even faster than the US economy is doing now.
- use a lightning missile, but they are expensive to make at start (40K energy for a silo) and even more AI progression

And this is defending one system (gate-raided the neighbours of all others). If you have two planets with unraidable-neighbours-until-later (IV with Ion Cannon) you have twice the problem.

[x4000]

All interesting points -- and really, the problem of the AI attacking force fields comes up whether the force fields are allowed to cover wormholes or not, so I'm not seriously considering turning off force fields that get too close to the wormholes any time soon.

My strategy for the above would be turrets and fighters.  Possibly also a few starships if I had the resources. 2000 raiders is an awfully big wave for very early in the game, I tend to play on difficulty 7 or so and so don't tend to run into that.  I could play on a higher skill level, but how I basically balance the game is so that I will win most of the time on 7, with it being an interesting challenge but not crazy difficult for me.  That's my guideline for game difficulty in general, and the other difficulty levels are progressing up/down from that point.  Sounds like you might also be playing against one of the Raider AI types, which have so much stronger waves, but weak defenses; definitely a challenge, and I suppose that would make grav turrets important all that much faster, as you say, though it's going to be a pretty tough challenge right at the very start.

[Haagenti]

All interesting points -- and really, the problem of the AI attacking force fields comes up whether the force fields are allowed to cover wormholes or not, so I'm not seriously considering turning off force fields that get too close to the wormholes any time soon.

My strategy for the above would be turrets and fighters.  Possibly also a few starships if I had the resources. 2000 raiders is an awfully big wave for very early in the game, I tend to play on difficulty 7 or so and so don't tend to run into that.  I could play on a higher skill level, but how I basically balance the game is so that I will win most of the time on 7, with it being an interesting challenge but not crazy difficult for me.  That's my guideline for game difficulty in general, and the other difficulty levels are progressing up/down from that point.  Sounds like you might also be playing against one of the Raider AI types, which have so much stronger waves, but weak defenses; definitely a challenge, and I suppose that would make grav turrets important all that much faster, as you say, though it's going to be a pretty tough challenge right at the very start.

Very well diagnosed. It is indeed the AI-8 Vicious Raider (which is very aptly named). I do wonder whether the raids will become much bigger as time progresses. I guess I'll find out what 150 III MLRS and 150 III Lasers can do.

And mercenaries: mercenaries are expensive but strong due to the combination of no ship-cap and low-power. I'm slowly building up a mercenary defense force behind the covered wormhole, keeping them unpowered. If a bomber raid announces itself I power up the cruisers and move them through the wormhole, after the battle they go back in cold storage. If you only use them against raids, you tend to lose very few as long as you only fight the ships you are designed to beat.

[x4000]

That's an interesting use for Mercenaries, I'm glad you have this alternate use for them -- quite cool.

By the way, given that one save of yours with the Laser/MLRS/Short-Range turret deathsquad, those take out 10,000+ AI ships easily even without being under force fields.  It's pretty crazy.  Of course, when you mass all your forces like that you then tend to not have enough to go around elsewhere, which is what the Supply is meant to cause problems with, so hopefully it will just be nicely balanced and not something that is an exploit for players or an overhard thing for the AI.  We shall see!

[Haagenti II]

A Vicious Raider at AI-150 creates about 4K ships per hour simply for raids. That is 1 per second.
And he reinforces (I don't know how fast, but it is a lot)
And he starts with 12K ships.
And there are two AIs and one of you.

Anything resembling a fair fight will get you killed against that production rate.

Whether this works out I don't know. In my current game I have three border planets:
A has a Wall of Turrets (shades of Phil Spector there)
B has had its neighbours gateraided
C is where my combat fleet is at

A has had several attacks, and seen several AI retreats. Slightly worrying is the fact that significant bits of the retreating forces are now showing up at B, so I'm building turrets there as well. Eventually C will have to do as well, as my combat fleet will have to go deep.

BTW: If we switch sides (I get 10K ships, the AI gets the 500 III turrets), those turrets would not live long. Even without sneakiness (snipers, dreadnoughts etc.) or special tactics (start with fighters to take the first salvo, then swoop in the bombers etc.)  I would gather them together and do a Banzai Charge (group move to point blank range). Not even turrets can take 20-1 odds.

There is a Banzai Charge forming at planet Gizmo in 9:23......