Tanks vs. Bombers

[twistedreasoning]

Ok so, as of the 4.0 release (congrats btw!), there really isnt much of a difference btw tanks and bombers. Bombers are slightly faster and actually have more hp and the same amount of armor. Tanks have a slightly higher firing rate and slightly more firepower, but they both have the same range. The discription of a tank in the game says heavily armored and slow with low range, but it just doesnt seem tankish right now...

No complaint, just an observation right now!

[Lancefighter]

Eh.

The difference between fighter and bulletproof isnt incredibly great either. Ok, well, one is immune to instakill. And shell ammo. But i mean, really..

[twistedreasoning]

Hmm... tank immune to instakill  and shell ammo or lasers.... now THAT would be a tank... I see the tank as slow as hell (around 16 or so would make it half as fast as a bomber), with more armor and firepower than a bomber, about the same reload time (or slower), but a shorter range. It would hit hard and slow. Tanks would take a while to get into place during an assualt, but be devestating once they were.

Basically a slower more heavily armored version of a bomber (kinda like mini siege starships). Bombers would be able to take out tanks, but tanks would be almost useless against bombers and fighters.  Fighters wouldnt do much to tanks, but swarm ships would be deadly. Tanks would have the same bonuses as bombers pretty much (heavy, ultra heavy, structural, ect).

My brain is fried because its 4:50am and I'm still in the middle of writing a paper, but right now this sounds somewhat logical... though it might not when I wake up and read it 

[Lancefighter]

papers are designed to be written at 4am in

also, there might be a place between bomber and zelec bomber that the tank could fill, but id have to actually try using the tank before I can comment on it really.

[keith.lamothe]

Well, as the note said a couple prereleases back:

Completely redid balance of the Space Tank, to be instead much more like a variant of the bomber, with the following differences:

    * 50% lower move speed.
    * 20% greater metal cost.
    * Zero crystal cost.
    * No bonus against CommandGrade hull type, replaced with bonus against Polycrystal hull type.
    * 20% greater shot damage.
    * 25% faster shots.
    * 20% less health.
    * Gets armor-piercing = its armor rating.

Those two have a pretty significant impact on what tanks are good against.

The idea was for them to be a lot slower, but with the changes to how human-player-ship-movement works there are basically no slow human units any more.  Just moderate, high, and ridiculous   And I think that's sensible, as it was always such a pain to deal with the slowpokes, and for what real benefit design-wise?  Tedium is not a valid element of challenge

All that said, this certainly wasn't intended to be the final-no-questions-asked balance of the tank; I'm listening.

[Salamander]

A bit off-topic I know but when I  saw this comment:

 Tedium is not a valid element of challenge

You sir have just stated quite plainly what I've been telling people in other games for some time. Making a game challenging but also interesting is what it's all about. I can't believe how some people defend boring parts of games as challenges. Doing chores in real life is tedious but it's hardly challenging I tell them. I'm so glad to see this stated openly an obviously by a talented game designer.

[Draco18s]

The difference between fighter and bulletproof isnt incredibly great either. Ok, well, one is immune to instakill. And shell ammo. But i mean, really..

Bulletproof fighters are expensive fighters that are good against fighters.

[twistedreasoning]

Gotcha... yeah I missed that armor piercing part! Tanks seem to share a similar role as the BP fighters... BP fighters good against fighters, tanks good against bombers.

I suppose it's an expectation thing with me... when I think tank, I think massive armor and moderate firepower at best. (ahhh the good ol WoW days when I actually had free time!)

Kudos again on the new release- I've been playing for a few months, and the game now compared to then is like night and day! I love it!

[Draco18s]

Gotcha... yeah I missed that armor piercing part! Tanks seem to share a similar role as the BP fighters... BP fighters good against fighters, tanks good against bombers.

I think if you check Tank's hull and bonuses, you'll see that a tank is good against the things that kill bombers (as well as being anti-bomber).
Haven't looked recently though, but the 3.189 tanks had the exact reverse strong/weak listing as the bomber (to the percent)! XD

[keith.lamothe]

Well, if we still had the strong-weak data the tank now would not even resemble the tank from 3.189; I literally ditched most of its stats and replaced them with multiplied versions of the bomber's stats.