Super fortresses on/near core systems

[Aziphos]

How can superfortresses on core systems (or systems next to a core system), which are protected through forcefields mkV, be destroyed?
Bombers and bomberstarships would easily be enabled....if there were no mkV figthers deployed by AI-reserves...and near a superfortress is any ship whithout polycrystal hull destroyed within moments.
I am glad I enabled spyrecraft...its the only possible way I can imagin to win, but I would be interested witch different ways could be used.
By the way...I installed patch 6.010 after I started this game, will any changes apear before I start a new game (the neinzul roaming-ship getting more and more....and I would be interested if the adjustments in ai-reserves are already in place).

[keith.lamothe]

If you have spirecraft, penetrators are good for assassination and implosion artillery are great for handling really-high-hp units (like core FFs and superforts).

As far as non-superweapons, the first two answers that come to mind are "brute force" and "warheads"

[LintMan]

Might this work:
Spire Rams are FF immune and I believe just 4 Mk1's will kill a Superfortress.  You just need to get them close.  You get 2 per asteroid so it's fairly easy to build up a full cap of them.  So then maybe first send in a big clound of cheap fighters, neinzul or whatever to occupy the SF and then quickly follow with the Rams.

[Diazo]

Ouchies.

Okay, updated the Superfortress page to make sure it was up to date. There were some changes but nothing major.

Having said that, this is one tough problem you have.

First, you said 'Core' system. Do you mean an AI homeworld or a planet adjacent to the AI homeworld?

Second, anything you do will probably have to involve cloaking. Once the tachyon guardians are down, you can send Cloaker Starships through first and anything you send through after will be instantly cloaked and the superfort will not get a shot off. Make sure to use transports or power-down your units as when a unit fires it can not be cloaked for several seconds.

And lastly, is it covered by a AI FF Mk III or Core AI FF?

I have nothing more specific to add beyond what's already been said in the thread.

D.

[Aziphos]

I mean both cases: AI homeworlds and planets adjacent to AI homeworlds.
What could I use without spirecraft (golems etc)?
mkV-Forcefields are imune to EMP, lightningwarheads may work...
Aditionally its sometimes kind of tricky to pass wormholes without decloaking the ships for a moment (I use group-move) is there any possibility to improve the number of surviving cloaked ships?

[Faulty Logic]

Usually the best way to deal with superforts is to work around them.  You don't actually have to pound through the double core forcefields around the AI Home command stations, you just have to use a bunch of lightnings under cloak. Spirecraft and golems offer much better solutions.

Aditionally its sometimes kind of tricky to pass wormholes without decloaking the ships for a moment (I use group-move) is there any possibility to improve the number of surviving cloaked ships?

Having cloakers both in front and behind the warhead group helps. But trying again is the best way around the cloak-blink.

[chemical_art]

I actually will have to contend that Super forts on core worlds, or at least AI HW, should be limitted to the highest AI defenses.

You cannot reliably use cloaking, because core eyes wreck it, and a fort within ai eye range is a permanent block on cloaking.

Brute force against both a super fort and reserves? I've never heard either of these things work against one of these. Both together? Please.

EMP's? Reserves, core shields, and super forts (I think) are all immune. Useless.

[Faulty Logic]

Each wave (your whole fleet) kills a few core posts or a brutal. Once the eye is dead, your cloaked warheads can kill the AI command station. You never have to kill the superfort.

[Diazo]

@Aziphos: I think we need a screenshot at this point. All the suggestions tossed out will work in certain situations, but none of them will work in all.

D.

[chemical_art]

Each wave (your whole fleet) kills a few core posts or a brutal. Once the eye is dead, your cloaked warheads can kill the AI command station. You never have to kill the superfort.

My point is that if the superfort is within 50k of either the eye or the command station or even a brutal post maybe, it could cause an disaster of a situation. Facing against a turtle AI I think is fine. Against your vanilla ai? Not so much in my opinion.

Also, I find the idea of using warheads as an acceptable solution, even for AI HW, extreme.

It would take over two full perfect salvos of every damaging warhead to defeat the super fort, and more so for an ai eye. Or a minimal of over 100 aip.

[Oralordos]

I think the key words in Faulty Logic's speech is You never have to kill the superfort.

Hit the command station with the missiles. That is the ultimate goal anyway. The superfort can stay there afterwards.

[Aziphos]

@Diazo: I already know how to resolve this situation, I decided to use penetrators. But I will not stop to play this game after I won...(or lost) and next time I face a fortress king (or another turtle type ai) I may play without spirecraft/on increased difficulthy/other circumstances and when I asked my question I had no clue how to beat the ai without spirecraft.

Will the AI get that much  mkV-ships at any raid  I start against a homesysten? (part of my Question if the tweaked AI-reserves allready affect my game)
All systems around the other homebase seem to have received more than 1000 mkV-ships since I startet my attacks, the reserves appear in the attacked systems and after my attack retreats they disappear (through the exo galaxy wormhole?) and reappear near the other ai homeworld (no world around the other homeworld is on allert).

On a complete different matter: on one ai-system I have TWO spirearchives, is it intended that this may happen or is it a bug? (in case its a bug game was started at patch 6.009)

[Bognor]

Someone asked about two Spire Archives on one world a while ago, and Keith didn't see it as a bug.  You still only get up to 9000 knowledge but you get there twice as fast.

[TechSY730]

I would like to repeat my position that if we humans are allowed to stack ludicrous amounts of defense on one world (like our HW), then why shouldn't the AI?

However, I guess it would be a good idea to make superforts be a "brutal pick" or something for most AIs (aka, homeworlds only), and even then have somewhat of a low chance. The fortress spamming AI and the turtle AIs can keep their special logic to occasionally spawn them elsewhere a well.

Also, superforts should probably be removed from the list of "construction projects" that cargo astro trains can make spawn.

[keith.lamothe]

I would like to repeat my position that if we humans are allowed to stack ludicrous amounts of defense on one world (like our HW), then why shouldn't the AI?

Remember what the builder hybrids used to do?