Author Topic: Suggestions  (Read 60404 times)

Offline Bridger

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2009, 10:50:46 am »
I guess you could do this by having a large range on the hospital ship, but in "human" terms and not programatically, the range of the hospital ship is like a beacon to "in range" ships that can make use of the services.

I thought last night in my game about some form of aircraft carrier for fighter deployment too.  Perhaps the hospital ships could be like a carrier type thing as these are usually fleet support ships rather than forward deployment vessels in navy terms.

Offline x4000

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2009, 10:54:42 am »
I guess you could do this by having a large range on the hospital ship, but in "human" terms and not programatically, the range of the hospital ship is like a beacon to "in range" ships that can make use of the services.

I kind of figured that they would be a beacon to any friendly forces on the current planet.  But I guess there could be a range limiter on them if that was desirable for some reason.  Can't think why that would be, though, at the moment.

I thought last night in my game about some form of aircraft carrier for fighter deployment too.  Perhaps the hospital ships could be like a carrier type thing as these are usually fleet support ships rather than forward deployment vessels in navy terms.

Yeah, that's an interesting idea -- basically having some sort of transport-type ship, possibly heavily armored with mine avoidance.  Would make planet-hopping easier, that's for sure, and depending on its speed it could make moving things like cruisers around a bit easier.  I think I'd make this a separate unlockable ship from the hospital ship, since you might want one of these functions and not the other, and that way I can make their knowledge unlock costs individually lower without unbalancing anything else too much.

These are both great ideas!
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Offline Bridger

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2009, 10:59:08 am »

I kind of figured that they would be a beacon to any friendly forces on the current planet.  But I guess there could be a range limiter on them if that was desirable for some reason.  Can't think why that would be, though, at the moment.


Only reason for having it ranged within the planet is I have still not gotten my head around the playing field being a planet, as it looks initially like a solar system to me (but then why would a solar system only have one planet - arrrgghh).

If the hiospital ship is a "survival tool" then there should be some challenge perhaps in bringing it closer to the action say to allow planet defenses other than the ion cannon to get it.  Still learning the tech, so there could be other planet wide turrets that would get the hospital ship no matter where it was.

Offline x4000

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2009, 11:14:10 am »
Only reason for having it ranged within the planet is I have still not gotten my head around the playing field being a planet, as it looks initially like a solar system to me (but then why would a solar system only have one planet - arrrgghh).

Ah, gotcha -- the planets are basically "the one planet we are visiting at this solar system."  My alpha testers are big into anything space-related (beyond just games), so they were quick to point this out to me. ;)

If the hiospital ship is a "survival tool" then there should be some challenge perhaps in bringing it closer to the action say to allow planet defenses other than the ion cannon to get it.  Still learning the tech, so there could be other planet wide turrets that would get the hospital ship no matter where it was.

Hmm, that's a good point.  There are sniper turrets that can hit ships that are anywhere on the planet, but they do very little damage.  For the hospital ship, it's not that it would be able to heal ships except those that are very close to it (so your ships would have to survive the trip back to it, for one thing, which would make ranging important), it's just that it would be able to recall ships from anywhere on the planet.  I think, at least to start out, that's probably how I'll do it.  Then if that seems too powerful for some reason, it can be nerfed in a later release/prerelease.
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Offline spelk

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2009, 11:18:39 am »
@Bridger, I think its considered a Planetary system rather than a solar system (planets around a star), so the immediate space around a planet with connecting wormholes.

The hospital support ship sounds like a good way to implement the "retreat waypoint" issue, plus it would act as a repair drone also. Setting the ship behaviours on the hospital ship seems a bit back to front to me, you would set your fleet in an aggressive or defensive mode, and if aggressive they would go in "balls out" and never retreat, or in defensive mode they would conserve their health, so that if they get to a point where they've taken too much damage they would begin their retreat to the nearest Hospital ship beacon. The ships would only peel off from the main fleet if they are at their damage threshold, whether you want that to be set by the player or not I'm not sure. Having a "Hospital" or "Rescue" ship available, could also dispatch small pickup drones, say up to 4 per rescue ship, that would jump start engine damaged fleet ships.  Obviously this all needs a cost to pay, and balancing this into the current mixture will need to happen. But this mechanism does mean, you can provide fleets with almost kamikaze like aggresion - fight to the death, as well as defensive configurations, supported by the costly rescue ships that will try and keep the fleet ticking over and the losses at a minimum. The defensive behaviour gives the fleet a much better chance at holding a place, and sustaining a ship based blockade. Not quite sure how you marry the aggression/defensive behaviours with the attack-move and roam beahviours. They all seem to do different things, but they're not necessarily mutually exclusive.

I do like the idea of battlecruisers with fleets of fighters and bombers, where the main ship would provide a defensive protective mechanism for them to retreat to - in a similar way to the rescue ships. Since fuel consumption is not factored into the game as far as I can tell, then fleets of fighters and bombers can just roam endlessly, so theres no real advantage to having a battlecruiser as a mere staging post for their attacks.

Something I thought about as well, does the game have a "shielding ship", sort of a mobile version of the shield equipment deployed at harvester sites or your command stations? A ship who has a radius of force field protection that could be used to fend off some attacks, and other ships could hide under the safety of its umbarella.. I remember seeing these sort of ships used in the Nexus - Jupiter Incident game, and wondered if a similar sort of ship would be useful as an extra ship type for the future?

Offline x4000

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2009, 11:32:39 am »
Setting the ship behaviours on the hospital ship seems a bit back to front to me, you would set your fleet in an aggressive or defensive mode, and if aggressive they would go in "balls out" and never retreat, or in defensive mode they would conserve their health, so that if they get to a point where they've taken too much damage they would begin their retreat to the nearest Hospital ship beacon. The ships would only peel off from the main fleet if they are at their damage threshold, whether you want that to be set by the player or not I'm not sure.

Here I'm thinking mostly of what would be most easier from an interface standpoint to control.  If you don't want do have your fleet retreat to the hospital ship, don't bring the hospital ship to the planet is my reasoning.  Basically the idea is that the hospital ship would be the one monitoring the fleet ships at the local planet, and would issue "overriding recalls" to ships that it wants to bring back for repairs.  It just seems simpler to use this way, IMO.

Having a "Hospital" or "Rescue" ship available, could also dispatch small pickup drones, say up to 4 per rescue ship, that would jump start engine damaged fleet ships.

Why not just use engineers for field repair here?  I guess maybe it would be better to have ships that are more like space "tow trucks," I could see where that could be useful.

Obviously this all needs a cost to pay, and balancing this into the current mixture will need to happen. But this mechanism does mean, you can provide fleets with almost kamikaze like aggresion - fight to the death, as well as defensive configurations, supported by the costly rescue ships that will try and keep the fleet ticking over and the losses at a minimum. The defensive behaviour gives the fleet a much better chance at holding a place, and sustaining a ship based blockade. Not quite sure how you marry the aggression/defensive behaviours with the attack-move and roam beahviours. They all seem to do different things, but they're not necessarily mutually exclusive.

Yep, all definitely considerations with something like this.  I think there's an existing niche here to fill, though, so hopefully it won't cause too much balancing trouble.  The main thing is that this hospital ship will be expensive in a number of senses (metal/crystal and knowledge), so it will be preventing you from using those resources for other things.  We'll see how it plays out in practice, it will definitely require more than average playtesting.

I do like the idea of battlecruisers with fleets of fighters and bombers, where the main ship would provide a defensive protective mechanism for them to retreat to - in a similar way to the rescue ships. Since fuel consumption is not factored into the game as far as I can tell, then fleets of fighters and bombers can just roam endlessly, so theres no real advantage to having a battlecruiser as a mere staging post for their attacks.

I experimented with fuel for a while, but it turned out to be more a frustration than anything else, and it was too complex for new players.  At some point in the future, if I can come up with a good model for it, I'm not opposed to having a start-game toggle that's something like "Require Fuel" or something.  But at the moment, I'm not sure what sort of strategic elements it really adds, aside from just one more thing to manage and one more weak point. 

The idea of the giant transport ships (battlecruisers as you call them), would be that they are not offensive at all, they are just a big armored shell that lets you take a fleet of ships past some big obstacle that you normally couldn't pass.  For instance, sneaking lower-level ships through a system with a bunch of ion cannons without them getting shot up.  Or as another way of getting past a clump of permamines, that sort of things.  It could also be a way to move friendly fleets through enemy territory relatively unmolested, and that's a big issue in the 4player game that I'm playing right now (there's an Advanced Factory that is way off, around 12 hops from the main front, but is only 5 hops if you cut through some big and enemy planets).  Without a transport ship, those forces have no hope of making it through, so they have to go all the way around.

Something I thought about as well, does the game have a "shielding ship", sort of a mobile version of the shield equipment deployed at harvester sites or your command stations? A ship who has a radius of force field protection that could be used to fend off some attacks, and other ships could hide under the safety of its umbarella.. I remember seeing these sort of ships used in the Nexus - Jupiter Incident game, and wondered if a similar sort of ship would be useful as an extra ship type for the future?

Yep, that's already there, actually -- the Mark III Force Field Generator is mobile, albeit slow.  It's also got the largest protection radius of all the force fields.  It can be a challenge to keep all of your ships under that while they are moving, though, so the idea of the transport ship is that it's easy on-the-go protection, but is not useful for anything beyond shuttling your stuff past enemy forces (which is useful).
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Offline T-Bone Biggins

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2009, 12:56:16 pm »
Well the possibility of a Technician Frigate runs abound in my head. It's a decent armored but slow frigate that carries several engineers in it, and anything nearby it will automatically send the drones to repair. 1 ship or turret to repair, it sends all drones, 2 ships it halves it's drones to quickly repair each one, and when there's more ships than drones in need of repair it will just repair the closest or the worst damaged ones in range first.

Think of this as a form of making a mobile repair base. Combine with the shields you can put up and it's a way of maintaining a fleet when you have no engineers following the fleet. Plus if you max out your number of engineers, the Technician Frigate sorta spawns or carries freebie ones, say 8 or 10 whichever balances out best, and you can only make a few Technician Frigates. This seems fairly easy to do without changing too much in the game or breaking balance.

Offline x4000

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2009, 01:43:03 pm »
Well the possibility of a Technician Frigate runs abound in my head. It's a decent armored but slow frigate that carries several engineers in it, and anything nearby it will automatically send the drones to repair. 1 ship or turret to repair, it sends all drones, 2 ships it halves it's drones to quickly repair each one, and when there's more ships than drones in need of repair it will just repair the closest or the worst damaged ones in range first.

Think of this as a form of making a mobile repair base. Combine with the shields you can put up and it's a way of maintaining a fleet when you have no engineers following the fleet. Plus if you max out your number of engineers, the Technician Frigate sorta spawns or carries freebie ones, say 8 or 10 whichever balances out best, and you can only make a few Technician Frigates. This seems fairly easy to do without changing too much in the game or breaking balance.

Could be, but the engineers are limited for balance reasons, and this would upset that some.  I can see why having heavier-defended engineers to use in battles is a value, though.  For the sake of simplicity, I might just implement a Mark II engineer that basically is more battle-hardened like you describe.  That would make them good for field use, which I think is the key problem you are trying to solve here.  I might also make it so that they can repair twice as fast, something like that.  I'll think on this a bit more, but the general gameplay addition that you're talking about I like.
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Offline x4000

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2009, 11:04:55 pm »
Okay, here's the latest prerelease version (1.005D):  http://www.arcengames.com/share/AIWar1005D.zip

That version is an upgrade from version 1.004, so you have to already have 1.004 installed. Just unzip it into your game folder (usually C:\Program Files\Arcen Games\AI War\ unless you specified something else). Please make sure that your unzip process keeps the folder structure from the zip file, rather than just unpacking all of the files into the base target directory.

Here's what's new in this one:



-A new "Minimap Display Mode" button has been added to the left of the minimap, complete with F5-F7 hotkeys that can be held to temporarily switch between the three non-normal modes.

-Certain ships (special forces command posts, astro train stations, ion cannons, force fields, fortresses, warp gates, and all of the specialized/capturable ships like advanced factories and research stations) now appear as icons in the intel summary on the galaxy map.

-When the game is minimized, it no longer plays music unless the game is in progress/paused.  This prevents the game from continuing to play music when it is sending players to the videos screen.

-Holding Ctrl while left-clicking the button for either metal or crystal harveters now builds all harvesters of that type at the current planet.  That makes it two clicks to build (or rebuild) all of your metal/crystal harvesters at any planet, as opposed to the longer manual process that it previously was.
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Offline Janster

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2009, 03:21:56 am »
As i posted in maybe the wrong place.

More visible pew pew plz, never underestimate the star wars lazor pew pew effect.

Offline x4000

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2009, 08:28:43 am »
Hey Janster, that's okay, I responded in the other thread.
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Offline Daemon

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2009, 10:37:59 am »
Just had a quick idea about carriers/heavy transports. Since they would carry other ships I'm assuming they would be quite large...so maybe make them not able to use wormholes but jump drives with a range depending on tech level...

This would give different tactical options and also maybe start a new breed of capital class ship?

Just things going through my head :)

Offline x4000

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2009, 10:43:06 am »
Just had a quick idea about carriers/heavy transports. Since they would carry other ships I'm assuming they would be quite large...so maybe make them not able to use wormholes but jump drives with a range depending on tech level...

This would give different tactical options and also maybe start a new breed of capital class ship?

Just things going through my head :)

Haha, that's a cool idea.  Having ships that are able to warp directly and avoid wormholes is something that I have planned for one of the expansions, but I'm not ready to tackle that just yet.  Early alpha versions of the game actually used this exclusively (wormholes did not even exist), but I'm not ready to go back into that arena just yet because there were a number of challenges. :)
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2009, 10:54:12 am »
Yea, non-wormhole travel would have a number of challenges, particularly balance wise.  Also, if you used some sort of stellar range then the actual x,y (z?) position of the nodes on the galaxy graph would start mattering big time and that could require some serious adjustment for all of us.

Another approach would be to have a ship that can "build" a new wormhole.  Basically it would have a build tab with one "entry point" and one "exit point" structure.  This would require an attacking force to invade via normal means and bring along the special/expensive/weak/slow wormhole planter and hold out long enough to get the exit point built (or use cloaking, if that's balanceable).  This would also give the short-circuit ability without requiring a whole new system of inter-system travel.  It could be a two-edged sword when used, as you'd have to be careful about what system you were giving them a road back to.  Or the created wormholes could be one-way and/or time limited (or destroyable).  The time limited version could make for some interesting raids, those pilots would be *very* keen on getting back on time ;)
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Offline Daemon

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2009, 11:18:50 am »
I thought about the impact a range would have and yes it would need a big overhaul...all though you could just stick to an x,y range, if no planets fit into that range you would either have to wait for a better tech ship to increase range, or maybe a placing a jump beacon...

in fact you could not have range and need to deploy a jump beacon for the ship to jump too...the further away it was the more energy it would use?

just random thoughs :)