Author Topic: Suggested Progression into new Material?  (Read 4142 times)

Offline chemical_art

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Re: Suggested Progression into new Material?
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2011, 09:50:46 pm »
I thought the tech progression was the same up to and including 8? I thought the jump came at 8.3?
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Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: Suggested Progression into new Material?
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2011, 08:44:49 am »
AFAIK, the AI gets "smarter" up to 8, then it starts simply cheating...if you will call it that. Although I might be wrong, and maybe it only starts doing that from 9 onwards.
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: Suggested Progression into new Material?
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2011, 08:53:03 am »
This is what I meant. Source here: http://www.arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_AI_Techs

The AI will go up a tech level on the following AI Progress schedule:

    * Mark II: 300 - ( 10 x Difficulty of AI Player )
    * Mark III: 800 - ( 10 x Difficulty of AI Player )
    * Mark IV: 1200 - ( 10 x Difficulty of AI Player )
    * For "Technologist" type AIs, if their level would be II or higher, they are instead Mark IV. If they would be below Mark II, they will instead be Mark III.
    * Additionally, when playing on difficulties greater than 8, the AI players will always be one Mark level higher than normal, until they hit Mark IV.


Meaning at 8.3 the AI ALREADY starts at II, not one. It goes to III when 8 would be II, and it will be at IV when the AI would be at III otherwise. This makes a monumental jump in difficulty.
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Offline Colonel J

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Re: Suggested Progression into new Material?
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2011, 05:31:25 pm »
My thoughts on the matter:
....

Wow, thank you for all that, much appreciated, the advice here would keep me going for my next year of game play at the rate I get through campaigns!

Interesting what you say about turning off CoN until you get more acquainted with the core game. I was already thinking of switching if off for my next couple of campaigns as this stage I've been struggling to work out how to make good use (indeed any effective use...) of the Neinzul ships and want to focus on learning with a smaller range of basic ships...and I probably need to get to grips with some more of the core game AI types first too.

Stage One: Vanilla - turn on Astrotrains? Seriously? The reputation of Astrotrains preceeds them - from reading the forum this is one of the options I'm most apprehensive of. I'm game for anything as a good learning experience though, as long as it's fun....




Offline Zeyurn

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Re: Suggested Progression into new Material?
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2011, 07:30:26 pm »
AstroTrains terrorized me so much in the base game ever since they've been an option I've always left them off :(

Offline Vinraith

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Re: Suggested Progression into new Material?
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2011, 09:28:32 pm »
Astrotrains are a minor annoyance and little else. I've no idea why they'd terrify anyone, to be honest, they're just sort of a landscape feature.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Suggested Progression into new Material?
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2011, 09:37:45 pm »
Astrotrains are a minor annoyance and little else. I've no idea why they'd terrify anyone, to be honest, they're just sort of a landscape feature.
Well, having a speed booster train on one of your planets when a big attack hits it can be more than an annoyance, but yea.
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Offline Vinraith

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Re: Suggested Progression into new Material?
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2011, 11:16:39 pm »
Astrotrains are a minor annoyance and little else. I've no idea why they'd terrify anyone, to be honest, they're just sort of a landscape feature.
Well, having a speed booster train on one of your planets when a big attack hits it can be more than an annoyance, but yea.

That's what I really mean by "landscape." Most of the time they're irrelevant, occasionally they matter a little, and once in awhile one will be in the wrong place at the wrong time and actually swing something important. Still, they're barely a blip on the difficulty scaling of a game to my thinking, almost any other minor faction, and certainly any other AI plot, is going to have far more impact.
 

Offline LordSloth

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Re: Suggested Progression into new Material?
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2011, 01:46:51 am »
I played some earlier AI War. With the balance changes of 5.0, they are nowhere near the terrors they used to be. In fact, I ended up asking for buffs either in December or January. They still do affect things a bit, but at lower difficulty ratings, you will probably be over-defending as a matter of course. They will mostly just cause you to unlock anti-dark matter turrets and mess with stealthed units and mines from time to time. The tech and economy balance makes anti-dark matter turrets accessible right off the bat.

They could be a tipping point if you're barely fighting off waves at difficulty 7.6 or 8, but I only see them being a game changer combined with some AIs and minor factions. Making any neinzul AIs even faster?  Yikes. Trains while performing a shard extraction? Ugh. I don't want to imagine a golemite AI with trains supporting and boosting the accompanying fleet. Or a train master AI with the exo-galactic strike forces of the spire campaign, again.

However, in general, there are more terrifying terrain features, like Raid Engines, Interplanetary Munitions Boosters, and Warp Retaliation Posts (these less so).

Right now, the Neinzul Wardens and Enclaves are much more terrifying, because at first, they effectively ignore all your stationary defenses, terrifying your inner turtle. It takes a big change to adapt to them, but there are several methods you can develop, whether you want a hands on or hands off response, reactive or proactive, adjusting your existing defensive setup, or coming up with a whole new layout. Mostly because they ignore tractor turrets and mines, and you don't get wave warnings. They can't strike very deep, unlike the AI, but they can wreak havoc on a frontloaded defense.

Offline Panopticon

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Re: Suggested Progression into new Material?
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2011, 03:21:31 am »
And to add little to that, Wardens and Enclaves seem to like they are more than happy to pounce in on waves and CPAs.

They just love to party.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Suggested Progression into new Material?
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2011, 08:48:12 am »
Right now, the Neinzul Wardens and Enclaves are much more terrifying, because at first, they effectively ignore all your stationary defenses, terrifying your inner turtle.
They do tend to outnumber tractor nets, but have you tried grav turrets under forcefields?  That tends to put some lead in their things on your feet.
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Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: Suggested Progression into new Material?
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2011, 09:16:12 am »
I've never had a problem with the neinzul, since they have no bomber-equivalent. They're a minor danger when an AI attack coincides with them, since that can quickly lead to target oversaturation of the defences as well as useless tractors, but otherwise their lack of bomber-equivalent prevents them from causing permanent damage.
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Offline Colonel J

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Re: Suggested Progression into new Material?
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2011, 11:54:19 am »
Astrotrains are a minor annoyance and little else. I've no idea why they'd terrify anyone, to be honest, they're just sort of a landscape feature.
Well, having a speed booster train on one of your planets when a big attack hits it can be more than an annoyance, but yea.

Thanks for the clarification guys.

So I am now thoroughly persuaded that Astro Trains and Avenger mode are not as bad as I'd built them up to be and so will be trying them in my next few games.  Gotcha.

I should probably stop coming here, before a Dev comes along again and persuades me 'no really, you should totally turn that on, it's really FUN....'   :-\  ;D
« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 11:57:40 am by Colonel J »

Offline Oralordos

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Re: Suggested Progression into new Material?
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2011, 12:29:38 pm »
Don't forget that quite a few people here have played Dwarf Fortress and know the alternate meaning of fun. :)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Suggested Progression into new Material?
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2011, 12:30:52 pm »
Don't forget that quite a few people here have played Dwarf Fortress and know the alternate meaning of fun. :)
No, no, no.  That's the real meaning of fun.  The other one is the alternate ;)
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