Starting again - Whats new?

[Phyrex]

Hi,
I used to play AI War before Zenith Remnant came out (did play a lot of the weekly expansion beta updates though) but stopped playing before it was fully released. Now I'm back and I see there are 3 expansions (one mini).

If I buy the 3 expansions, will their all content be available in a (single player) game or is it more like a different campaign and I only need the last expansion to be up to date?

I used to follow the change logs a lot but so many things changes in even just one month... it was crazy. Any pointers on what's majorly different now from when I played would be helpful and really appreciated.

[x4000]

Woo boy, a lot is different.  This gives a bit of an overview: http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War:Fleet_Command#What.27s_New_In_4.0

In terms of the expansions, all three of them work together in any combination, and there is only ever one executable.  There are no inter-dependencies, and you don't lose anything by having any of them.  Basically it works the way every expansion for any game should, but few do.  We made it easy on purpose.

Welcome back!

[keith.lamothe]

Since before TZR?  Well, the game has changed dramatically several times since then, so you're probably best off approaching it as a new game with a (relatively) familiar interface

And each of the expansion add their own unique bits to each game, when they are enabled.  LotS also has an alternate "Defender Mode" campaign type which is for shorter, defense-oriented games.  It also has a "Fallen Spire" minor faction that doesn't change the fundamental game but gives you an additional way to grow in power and (if you follow it far enough) has an alternate victory condition.

But for your first game after all that time, I'd suggest playing the vanilla game, and then get the expansions if you want more

[x4000]

I'll second that!

[Phyrex]

Thanks guys, a lot of reading to do apparently.  

I see the ship-specific damage multipliers are finally gone. I remember x4000's post (I think) defending that game mechanic and in a way I kinda agreed. It allows for easier flexibility and balance but in practice/ingame it was just a bit annoying and too unintuitive. Not yet sure how the hull type exactly works though.

I assume the AI progression is still the same? (As in: if you do nothing the game won't get harder)

*continues reading the 4.000 change log*

[x4000]

Yeah, the game changed enough over time that the ship-specific stuff just no longer made sense.  There was less going on with specific small-fleet battles than in the past in general, was part of it -- now there's a ton more of large units that act as centerpieces on both the player and AI sides, and that changes everything.

AI Progress is quite the same, no worries there.

[Phyrex]

I especially like that the AI worlds are more unique now.

Regarding the AI progress, I remember something about staying under 200 or else the game would become too hard. Does this still apply? I see the endgame has been revamped though (great!) but I assume this "don't just capture every planet" strategy is still central to the game?

Me and a friend will start a game again this evening. How does 40 planets with two AI 6 or 7 sound? (We used to play AI 8-9 on 80 planets but it's been a long while...) I don't know how much the difficulty changed with the new settings.

Most of the new details I will find out on a playthrough but I would like some pointers on what type of game to start and how many strategic planets to capture before you shoot yourself in the proverbial foot.

Thanks.

[x4000]

Let's see, you were from the 2.0 era, so I imagine the difficulty now would be about the same, or slightly harder.  It got much easier for a bit in the 3.0 to 4.0 eras, and 5.0 cranked it back up.  Though I will say that 8 and 9 get much harder now, at each jump.

In terms of AIP, I wouldn't think that 200 would be any sort of cap you'd need to worry about, but it depends on your playstyle.  Some people play to that, but I try to balance around about 600, myself.  It depends on how conservative you want to be.  Datacenters are less plentiful, now, though, so even the people that used to skirt around on 200 AIP are I think more like 400 now, by the end of the game at least. 

On an 80 planet map, I generally take 16-18 planets by the end of the game, but some folks would find that way too much.  I think if you want to be ultra conservative, you still need 8-10 planets by the end of the game on a 40 or 80 planet map.

40 planets is cool, but personally my favorite is 60 or 80.  I'd stay with at least 40 for a "standard" sort of game, though.

Glad you like the looks of it!

[Phyrex]

Good to know 600 won't be a major (game-stalemate) problem. I think we'll capture around 5 planets each which leaves plenty room for possible mistakes and a couple future strategic colonies.
I normally like to do tactical deepstrikes, I remember something changing with that playstyle around 2.0 (along with things like science only being farmable in adjacent planets or something...). I think it was the supply thing, which made it more interesting. Anything new changed in terms of how you normally capture/raid planets since then?
Edit: I just read a bit in 5.0 changelog about a new AI stalking mechanic and "better handles play deep strikes". Awe-some!

Anyway just to be sure, when we decide to buy the expansions, can we enable all expansions at the same time so all their content will be in a single game? If so: what would be the main differences regarding both difficulty and playstyle with all expansions enabled compared to 5.0 Vanilla?

[zoutzakje]

yes, you can enable all the expansions at once.
I don't think a lot changes regarding to difficulty, there is just a huge amount of new stuff in those expansions and it can be a bit overwhelming at first. Trying out one or 2 new things at a time is how I usually get to know my way around with everything in due time, but maybe you enjoy a more chaotic galaxy? ^^
I don't know much about the difference in playstyle though. I haven't been around that long and I've had 2 out of 3 expansions from the start.

[x4000]

You can turn on the expansions and most of their content all at once.  A few things are mutually-exclusive choices always: map types, ai types (you only ever get two, but they can be from any mix of expansions and base game), and campaign type (it's either defender or conquest).  With all expansions on and complex ship types enabled, there are a total of 54 bonus ship classes, so you won't see all of those in any one campaign, either -- usually a max of about 7 on your team with two players, plus whatever the AI is using against you.  So there's a lot of replay value there.

In terms of minor factions, ai plots, and just all of the various other capturables and such that come with the expansions, you can turn all those on at once.  In terms of the capturables, those are always on by default if each expansion is on.  In terms of minor factions and ai plots... probably you want to tailor subsets of that to your tastes.  Turning everything on would be a bit overwhelming, I think.

If you're uncertain, you can always demo the expansions, by the way.  You get up to three hours of gametime per campaign with them on in demo mode, and you can continue your campaign past the three hour mark if you do wind up getting them.

Strategically, in a vanilla game with all the expansions on (not with the minor factions, I mean), what you mainly gain is a lot more variety per planet, and more various challenges to figure out.  Also more variety in possible AI types, bonus ships, etc, obviously.  Some of this can affect the game quite notably, in terms of how you value targets and such (for instance, you could take more planets and then rely on a superterminal to try to drive AIP back down some).

In terms of the minor factions, some of them are quite minor in effect, but others are real game-changers.  I'd stay away from hybrids until you're further back into things, and fallen spire you could go either way with early in, but it's a big game-within-a-game.

[Phyrex]

Thanks again guys. A lot of helpful information.

I started a game with the map revealed just to take a quick look at some of the new buildings. (By the way, loving the music!)
I noticed the core shield objectives and a lot of invulnerabilities are thrown around. Does this mean that no matter what, you need to capture those planets before you can destroy the core shields? That means like... 7 planets that are mandatory and you have no say in whether or not you want to control that planet..?
Maybe I'm just getting it wrong but I prefer to pick my own planets that I own. Being forced to destroy the command station is one thing but being forced to build one of your own (which you can't easily scrap before of further AIP loss) seems a bit... well.. forceful. 

Oh one last thing, is there now perhaps a way to make your own galaxy map design? Not necessarily the planet layout (I still like that random) but more like the galaxy/hub connections and where/what the starting ships are.

[x4000]

My pleasure.  And glad you're enjoying the new music!

There's not a way to design the galaxy map at this point.

In terms of the core shield generators, you are correct on that -- you can turn CSGs off if you hate them, but the rationale for them has been much-debated in the past.  To some extent they are "training wheels" for new players, but they also create some interesting strategic situations for advanced players, too.

[Phyrex]

Ah good you can turn it off. But don't get me wrong, I like the idea of the core schield generators; the fact that you have to scout the whole galaxy and do tactical strikes in order to advance...
I just don't like the approach that you have to build your own command station there. Especially when it's at a place where your normally would never have build one and it will probably be very hard to defend. If scrapping a base in such a place was possible without AIP it also wouldn't be a problem. It's the combination of those two factors I personally don't like.

But I get that it also allows for some interesting gameplay because you are forced to be adaptive and not simply run a pre-determined strategy. Ahwel, can't please everyone.. (Unless you add an option that makes the shield already vulnerable when you destroy the command station )

[x4000]

You can always scrap bases with no AIP increase.  The only AIP increase is when you take the planet in the first place, just FYI.  That's true of everything except your home command station (and always was, though some folks had some confusion on it).