Author Topic: Spirecraft Ion Blaster - Does anybody use them?  (Read 6915 times)

Offline Ozymandiaz

  • Hero Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 813
  • King of kings
Re: Spirecraft Ion Blaster - Does anybody use them?
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2011, 06:39:32 am »
Even if ions are buffed the ai held ones will be easy enough to counter.

No matter what mark level the cannon they shoot the lowest mark first so just make sure to have plenty of cannon fodder mkI in your fleet.

In retrospect the devs will probably change the targeting priority to shoot the highest mark now.  :P

Really? Hmm, I could have sworn they went after the highest tier MK ships they could insta kill first. I alwyas seem to loose my Mk III and IV ships quicker on ioncannon worlds with high tier ion cannons.

If that is not the case, it really should be though :)
We are the architects of our own existence

Offline Ranakastrasz

  • Full Member Mark III
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
Re: Spirecraft Ion Blaster - Does anybody use them?
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2011, 07:11:06 am »
Pretty sure the automated ship targeting AI targets ships that will take the most damage, so I am pretty sure ION cannons shoot higher marks by default.

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: Spirecraft Ion Blaster - Does anybody use them?
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2011, 09:04:48 am »
I think it was fine how ICs basically annihilated any ships that fall under their mark level (they used to have a refire time of ~1 second?)
Yes, it was 1 second per shot, but that was with a standard mkI triangle ship cap of 196.  Now with that cap (playing on high caps) it fires every 2 seconds (every 4 on normal caps, every 8 on low).  So in theory they should be about half as dangerous as they used to be.  In practice they seem to be a lot less dangerous than that.

I think I'll go with the same reload times but have it do 4 shots per salvo, and we'll see how much pain that causes ;)

That will probably be sufficient to make AI Ions painful again, but doesn't really help the mkI/II spirecraft ions since you don't see a lot of pitched battles against mkI/II AI ships by the time you're in midgame.  That's the main reason I want to give them some kind of useful role against higher-mark stuff.  And honestly the AI Ions don't need that as long as they're dangerous enough as insta-kill.  Though that doesn't address ion cannons not being very useful to humans.

Quote
Maybe an IC under human control should be able to kill its mark level +1 so humans want to capture ICs.
That would be very icky to code.

Quote
Or maybe give IC shots a small AOE that might not instakill but will at least kill engines.
That would be possibly but probably difficult to balance and would encourage a lot of micro on the player's part to not get so much splash-engine-damage.

Quote from: Ranakastrasz
Pretty sure the automated ship targeting AI targets ships that will take the most damage, so I am pretty sure ION cannons shoot higher marks by default.
It's not actually that simple, ions actually have a separate targeting branch that tries to prioritize the most expensive targets that they can insta-kill.  So in practice, yea.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Ozymandiaz

  • Hero Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 813
  • King of kings
Re: Spirecraft Ion Blaster - Does anybody use them?
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2011, 09:27:21 am »
I think it was fine how ICs basically annihilated any ships that fall under their mark level (they used to have a refire time of ~1 second?)
Yes, it was 1 second per shot, but that was with a standard mkI triangle ship cap of 196.  Now with that cap (playing on high caps) it fires every 2 seconds (every 4 on normal caps, every 8 on low).  So in theory they should be about half as dangerous as they used to be.  In practice they seem to be a lot less dangerous than that.

I think I'll go with the same reload times but have it do 4 shots per salvo, and we'll see how much pain that causes ;)

That will probably be sufficient to make AI Ions painful again, but doesn't really help the mkI/II spirecraft ions since you don't see a lot of pitched battles against mkI/II AI ships by the time you're in midgame.  That's the main reason I want to give them some kind of useful role against higher-mark stuff.  And honestly the AI Ions don't need that as long as they're dangerous enough as insta-kill.  Though that doesn't address ion cannons not being very useful to humans.


4 shot salvoes sounds pretty cool actually. Got my support :). And if you play like me will still make the MK II cannon worth it, since I try and keep AIP low, and teh AI sends Mk II ships frequently early to mid/late game.

Adding the other kind of damage as you mentioned might also be a pretty cool idea, for both humans and the AI. Regardless, the 4 shot salvoes will go a long way to make them more dangerous again :)
We are the architects of our own existence

Offline Zeba

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
  • Grumpy Olde Man
Re: Spirecraft Ion Blaster - Does anybody use them?
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2011, 11:32:04 am »
Hmmm, always seem to notice only my low mark ships dieing first to high mark ions.

Welp here is to not drinking and ai waring it seems.   :-X

Offline Commiesalami

  • Full Member Mark II
  • ***
  • Posts: 167
Re: Spirecraft Ion Blaster - Does anybody use them?
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2011, 12:33:08 pm »
I just had a thought ... how about differentiating Spirecraft Ion Cannon and the stationary ones.  The stationary ones can be buffed in the ways mentioned earlier in the thread, but we could redirect the purpose of the Spirecraft ones to deal engine damage on large threats.

Some ships (notable spire fleet ships like tractor platforms & guardians) have engine healths sometimes up to 100K.  Reducing this via riot ship is a joke (But I haven't tried Mk3s in recent memory).  The Ion Blaster can then be given a engine damage of 20K*Mk in order to slow high engine health ships.  (Naturally rate of fire would be kinda low/single shot to prevent this from being effective against fleet ships).  I know that the Antimatter Starships already are designed to do huge amounts of engine damage but have quickly realized that targets tend to die before any appreciable engine damage occurs.

Offline Commiesalami

  • Full Member Mark II
  • ***
  • Posts: 167
Re: Spirecraft Ion Blaster - Does anybody use them?
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2011, 12:39:42 pm »
Also a quick aside question:  Are Spire Maws and swallowers also affected by changing the unit cap, namely how quick the nom up opposing ships?

Offline chemical_art

  • Core Member Mark IV
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,952
  • Fabulous
Re: Spirecraft Ion Blaster - Does anybody use them?
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2011, 12:57:55 pm »
How game breaking would it be to move spire ion blasters down an asteroid level?
Life is short. Have fun.

Offline Ranakastrasz

  • Full Member Mark III
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
Re: Spirecraft Ion Blaster - Does anybody use them?
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2011, 03:58:08 pm »
Also a quick aside question:  Are Spire Maws and swallowers also affected by changing the unit cap, namely how quick the nom up opposing ships?
Not directly. They also get no more/less capacity either, but you can build more of them.

Offline mindloss

  • Full Member Mark II
  • ***
  • Posts: 169
Re: Spirecraft Ion Blaster - Does anybody use them?
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2011, 04:06:46 pm »
What's the verdict on what targets the cannon pick off first? I was always worried the MkIVs would be taking out my flashy merc ships, but I've never actually bothered to watch what exactly they're aiming at... usually too busy trying to get rid of 'em. ("Ramirez! Take out that space cannon!")

Offline Philo

  • Full Member Mark II
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
Re: Spirecraft Ion Blaster - Does anybody use them?
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2011, 04:28:06 pm »
Yeah I'm all for buffing the ion cannons too. 2 shots per second sounds pretty good. Maybe somekind of a AI forcefield on it too? Vanishes after you capture it? Or not.

Offline BobTheJanitor

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,689
Re: Spirecraft Ion Blaster - Does anybody use them?
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2011, 04:42:23 pm »
Yeah I'm all for buffing the ion cannons too. 2 shots per second sounds pretty good. Maybe somekind of a AI forcefield on it too? Vanishes after you capture it? Or not.

The amount of HP some of the higher mark ions have is comparable to a force field. It would just be redundant, IMO.

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: Spirecraft Ion Blaster - Does anybody use them?
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2011, 04:57:49 pm »
What's the verdict on what targets the cannon pick off first? I was always worried the MkIVs would be taking out my flashy merc ships, but I've never actually bothered to watch what exactly they're aiming at... usually too busy trying to get rid of 'em. ("Ramirez! Take out that space cannon!")
They'll shoot the most costly (m+c) thing they can insta-kill, in general.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline mindloss

  • Full Member Mark II
  • ***
  • Posts: 169
Re: Spirecraft Ion Blaster - Does anybody use them?
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2011, 10:36:04 pm »
They'll shoot the most costly (m+c) thing they can insta-kill, in general.

In other words, the MkIVs will go after my merc ships first :(  better start planning for that.

Offline KDR_11k

  • Hero Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 904
Re: Spirecraft Ion Blaster - Does anybody use them?
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2011, 04:32:43 am »
A mucgh better alternative for immediately eliminating enemy fleet ships is the Maw, a few of those things will easily eat up dozens of enemies (depending on how long the battle lasts) and even Mk Is will work against any enemy (no mark limit to what they can eat and the capacity doesn't come into play usually since most battles are over long before the Maw is full, the highest values I've seen on mid caps was in the twenties).