Some Starships cost too much Knowledge

[Kahuna]

I just realized I never unlock higher Marks of Raid, Plasma Siege and Bomber Starships because they're so expensive. Sometime I unlock MarkII Riots. They cost 4k Knowledge and are very useful.

atm.
MarkII Raid Starship costs 4k Knowledge - I might sometimes unlock them if they cost 3k Knowledge
MarkIII Raid Starship costs 4k Knowledge - Ok

MarkII Plasma Siege Starship costs Knowledge - If these cost 4k (like MarkII Riots) depending on situation I would unlock either these or Riots
MarkIII Plasma Siege Starship costs Knowledge - Should be 5k like MarkIII Riots. If they cost 5k I might sometimes unlock them.

MarkII Bomber Starship costs Knowledge - I might sometimes unlock them if they cost 3 or 4k Knowledge.
MarkIII Bomber Starship costs Knowledge - Imo should be 4 or 5k Knowledge.

EDIT: I forgot Leech Starships. Imo they're too expensive too.

[chemical_art]

Voted yes.

The new starships feel like good values.

MK I (if needed to be unlocked) cost 1k

Mk II cost 2k

MK III cost 4k

[TechSY730]

Most Mk. II military starships, a little too much.
Most Mk. III military starships, way too much.

I have been pushing for reducing higher tier starship knowledge costs for quite some time.
Although think that 2k for Mk II and 4k for Mk. III is too small, I would be content with 3k and 4.5k-5k, respectively.
Keep in mind, there is no Mk. IV starship fabricator, and as such, Mk. III military starships should have a knowledge cost of less than Mk. III fleet ships.

[Kahuna]

Keep in mind, there is no Mk. IV starship fabricator, and as such, Mk. III military starships should have a knowledge cost of less than Mk. III fleet ships.

qtf

[Eternaly_Lost]

I disagree a little on the Raid Starships. I normal stack the Mk1-3 together and use them as my go to guys for killing something at a distance. They ignore FF, are fast and take things down quickly. Making them perfect for rapid strikes against hybrids or Counter Guardposts and general softening of systems for the main fleet that is following them. They remove the Ions and the like so that the AI is weak there when the fleet pops in it head. Exactly what they are designed to do and they do so perfectly.

However I fully agree with the other starships. Bomber and Plasma don't seem to really stand out next to all the other ships I use.

[keith.lamothe]

Keep in mind, there is no Mk. IV starship fabricator, and as such, Mk. III military starships should have a knowledge cost of less than Mk. III fleet ships.

On the other hand, fleet ship cap goes down each mark, starship cap stays the same (except the MkIV scout starship, which gets 2 instead of 5 because it's an invincible scout).

And in general a few bigger ships get more DPS out than many smaller craft, which is one reason they aren't brought fully in line with fleet ship stats in a lot of ways: otherwise it becomes possible (as it has multiple times in the game's history) to just build a gang of starships and fly around with that as your fleet.  FS is there for folks who want that kind of thing, but generally the normal-game starships are special-purpose (the new zenith line being the closest thing to an exception to that).

[Martyn van Buren]

Yeah I feel like raid II's are fairly priced; at diff 7-8 they frequently make the difference to me between being able to pop into (or cross) a well-reenforced Mk IV world and take out a guardpost or something.  Rarely feel a need for III's, however, and I would favor lowering prices a bit for bombers and siege.

To make another suggestion for Raid III's, how would people feel about raising the price a little and giving them cloaking?

[Ragnarok]

I ALWAYS unlock Raid II and III, they are very, very useful.
But i have to unlock Plasma, Leech, Cloaker or anything.

[Hearteater]

On the other hand, fleet ship cap goes down each mark, starship cap stays the same (except the MkIV scout starship, which gets 2 instead of 5 because it's an invincible scout).

Aren't you about to change that?

And my vote excludes Raid Starship pricing which is reasonable given their exceptional ability at performing their role.

[keith.lamothe]

On the other hand, fleet ship cap goes down each mark, starship cap stays the same (except the MkIV scout starship, which gets 2 instead of 5 because it's an invincible scout).

Aren't you about to change that?

I might, or I might not   And if I do, fleet ship knowledge cost would probably need to go up, depending on how the AI's side of things is handled.

[Wingflier]

What's the complaint about using a Starships only fleet again? It seems to me that if that's where you want to dump all your knowledge, it should be viable. Maybe the game just needs more Asteroid Cannon seeds or some new anti-Starship Guardians...*stares at Keith again*

[chemical_art]

I might, or I might not   And if I do, fleet ship knowledge cost would probably need to go up, depending on how the AI's side of things is handled.

You can buff fleetship costs, but I will already say that while I find MK II's a good bargain I get MK III's as a last resort, even if I have a IV factory. III's are pricy, no way around it, and in my experience a IV factory is always a chancy and temporary thing.

[Hearteater]

Seems odd that Mark II+ fleet ships get better (because their caps go up) and to balance Starships, their K cost goes up???  Dropping cap reduction on fleet ships actually makes putting K into Starships an even worse investment.

[rabican]

Apart from plasma & bomber starships i think they are more or less okay.

Fleet/spire/zenith, haven't had enough time to play around with these to say one way or another.

Raid SS : Often take MK II, rarely MK III

Leech SS: Situational, if i'm surrounded by bunch of MK IV planets or playing two techno AIs i tend to unlock II-III

Bomber SS : a while ago i played a game where i restricted myself offensively to using starships only(was very tedious, lot of baiting, but doable). I never once thought of upgrading bombers even then.

Plasma SS: same K cost as bomber, so it doesn't get upgraded. Although a lot better ship.

[chemical_art]

The new starships are a welcome addition, but feel samey.

I liked it when they were unique. Zenith ships were true fortresses, with high health and dps but critically weak to dps.

Spire craft were ultra long range weapon craft.