Author Topic: Some feedback from me, as a new player.  (Read 4641 times)

Offline Misery

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Some feedback from me, as a new player.
« on: September 02, 2014, 09:48:58 am »
Okay.  So.  I'd tried to get into this game awhile back, only to be stopped by stupid arm pain and such, since this game does get really.... clicky.  All the other games dont need nearly as much and so could be handled at the time without my pain going out of control.

Recently, that problem has gotten much better, and I can do games like this as I want to, so it was time to jump into this one. 


Now I'm sure you guys have heard all manner of feedback and comments and such before, yet I"m gonna ramble on anyway, because... because.   I'm used to giving feedback on everything everywhere, so I may as well do it here.  This is all from the perspective of someone familiar with strategy games as a whole but coming in very new to this one.  Though at this point I doubt I at all need to explain where I stand with this sort of thing, I'm guessing that's pretty much known by now.



First:  The tutorial.   It seems better than it was when I'd tried before.... did it get updated?  It seemed to take quite a bit longer to get to the "Okay, I'm done explaining stuff... go off and win now!  Try not to die!" point.  That being said, it kinda seems like it could go into a bit more detail on some things.  A few things arent so obvious, or perhaps arent so easy to get used to and grasp initially.  For example, the big horrible blob of data that is displayed for any ship you hover over is... well, I'll say, "intimidating", that's for sure.  It's like, holy crap, that's ALOT of stats for this tiny fighter. And even more for anything large.  Figuring out what is good at what isnt always so easy.  Moreso, when looking at specific enemy ships/stations/whatever, getting a sense of what to use to best topple them is also difficult.  So many stats on those too, and finding just where the holes in any given thing's defenses are is tough.   I'll get the hang of it quickly enough, but that's what I thought going into it.  The further I go though, well, yeah, I can see why this game is considered to be so tough to get into.  This isnt quite Dwarf Fortress, in that I probably dont need 60 half-hour tutorial videos to learn it, but still, it FEELS just like the process for learning that game did.  Quite a challenge.

So, I do think the tutorial could be greatly improved, though exactly HOW is beyond me, I'm not some sort of tutorial scientist.   But it's decent at least at the basic concepts.  Though, when it DOES leave off at the end, suddenly it's like, okay, so now it's just given me the goal of "go win", but there's SO MANY different THINGS that I could make/do now, and what's the best choices here? 

To my suprise it immediately forced some experimenting on me by throwing stuff at the homeworld, including a few big spiky horrible things that took me a bit of time to figure out what to do with.  Again, all that data...

That part of the game though, I think so far is very well done.  Defending against AI assaults is interesting, challenging, and fun, as well as satisfying once a difficult attacking group is beaten.  What was kinda tough though was that it was hard to get a sense of just HOW MUCH defensive stuff made up for an effective number against forces of varying sizes.  I'd thought I'd built enough turrets and thingamajigs there.  I was wrong.  Also tough to get a sense of which turrets are good at dealing with which threats, though I'll get a sense of it as I go, but figuring those out seems tougher than figuring out uses for most other things.


Interface is mostly good, though I'm not entirely sure how to use that bit in the lower left.  That bit is a little confusing.  The bit on the right is just fine.  For the galaxy map though, I notice that it seems to be able to show enemy ship numbers, in red, over planets where I can see them.  It'd be kinda nice if it could do the same for my own ships, or if I could look at my own planets on that same map with a similar view to how it displays summaries of enemy planets.  I've a terrible memory and can easily get lost when dealing with large amounts of stuff, which can be irritating when I've got some complicated plan I want to do, so there's alot of moments of, okay, so I've got some number of ships here... but where's the rest of this force split up?  Where's my raid ships?  How many things are defending this place over here right now?  Possibly, I"m missing stuff here.   I do that alot. 


Hacking:  Explained, but I really dont know what to do with it.  Of everything explained in the tutorial, this seemed like it needed more detail more than anything.  Obviously, still in the tutorial, I dont *need* to be using absolutely everything, but I figure it's a good time to experiment and mess with stuff before jumping into a real game, but this part specifically has me lost for the moment.


Scouting:  OMG STUFF.  Another "kinda intimidating" part initially.  So many.... red things... dunno what half of them do, I just know that alot of them are big and lumpy and covered in spikes, which typically doesnt mean anything good. 


And finally, the controls overall, pretty good as a whole.  One thing that did kinda bug me was the initial binding of the pause function.  It might be just me, perhaps others are more used to this one as-is, but it felt odd having it be on that particular key.  Switched it to spacebar.  Other than that, the default setups work well, and commanding units is pretty easy provided I dont forget which keys do what, and thus order them to do something really stupid by hitting the wrong one. 



So that's my experience with the game so far.  There is also of course the expansions.... I bought all of them because yes.    I'm doubting there's a pile of seperate tutorials for each one, so what is a good way of learning the stuff in each expansion?  I'll mess with them once it's time to get into a real game.  Alot of features in those sound neat.


All in all, very good so far, albeit with a mean learning curve.  Very polished overall.  And murderous.  No complaints here, though, as per the usual.

Offline Hearteater

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Re: Some feedback from me, as a new player.
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2014, 10:47:53 am »
In the bottom middle-ish of the galaxy map are two boxes. One probably says "Normal" and the other might say "Mobile Military" or something similar. The first box (with Normal) controls what is displayed on TOP of each planet. You can change it to "My Ships" and then you'll have blue numbers counting your ships on top, and red numbers counting enemy ships on the bottom. But there are a ton of other useful options such as: Scouts, which shows where all your scouts are so you can tell which planets you have scout pickets at; Starships, so you can find where they heck you left those expensive ships; Threat, so you can see exactly where all the AI ships are that are elidgable to attack you at will (note, you must have a scout in a system to see threat, which is a good reason to scout picket everything). Plus a ton of other options for recalling where all kinds of important strategic targets are located on the map. You can also bind keys to those options so you can quickly switch to them. Most have keybindings already defined, but I believe Threat might not by default (could be a didn't like the default).

That second box Filters the ship counts being reported. It doesn't matter for some options, like Detect Asteroids. But when you have it on My Ships or similar, you can change the filter to include/exclude a few groups. That said, I never change it of Mobile Military as the other options aren't particularly useful.

As for the box of buttons in the lower left, feel free to ignore all the icon buttons (the 3 text buttons are useful). It has some very limited usefulness, but I regularly play a 20 hour games and never touch it. But if you are curious, it is a "quick" find system for a few types of units. For example, you can click on the constructor (fifth picture button from the left) and it will list all the TYPES of constructors you have, along with the count of each in parathesis. So if you have 10 Space Docks total, it will say "Docks (10)". Clicking on "Docks (10)" will then list all your space docks along with the system they belong to and an ordered count (which isn't useful for anything). Clicking on one of those will select that unit and take you to it.

Good luck and enjoy!

Offline Vyndicu

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Re: Some feedback from me, as a new player.
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2014, 11:01:47 am »
Scouting:  OMG STUFF.  Another "kinda intimidating" part initially.  So many.... red things... dunno what half of them do, I just know that alot of them are big and lumpy and covered in spikes, which typically doesnt mean anything good. 

You can make a save right before you invade or neutering (neuter means killing guard posts and forts etc... to make it less dangerous to travel through).

Most of the "nasty" has something in the tool tip box describing what it does. Also be sure to check immunes and what you are using to make sure that you are using the right tools.

For example: Don't use spire ram against stuff that has "command-grade armor" like AI command station or Hunter-killer but I guess you are not playing with that on yet; are you? I recommend waiting on turning on Hunter-killer as they hurt as part of Special Force.

Offline Zair

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Re: Some feedback from me, as a new player.
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2014, 01:56:20 pm »
I'll agree that the game CAN be a little slow to learn in some respects, yes. That said, it's probably best to start on a lower AI difficulty than normal to get used to mechanics, then jump into a 'real' game once one's learned a little more.

Mind you, I may not be the best person to give advice as I've literally only seen the 'You win!' screen twice in all the time I've played, having picked the game up when it had just three expansions. But I still love it anyways.

Offline Misery

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Re: Some feedback from me, as a new player.
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2014, 08:03:11 am »
Holy hell finding specific ships among the whole mess is really irritating and clunky.

So, I'm looking for a couple of flagships, right?  The starship constructor says that there's already 2 out there.  So, I go and use the filters to try to find them.  I only have 3 planets with starships of any sort.... and surprise, none of them are flagships.  Even looking on the planets that arent being labeled by that filter, there's still nothing there.   Aint on enemy planets either, just lone scouts there.


As it is, they're totally MIA, so they're basically both nonexistent and not able to be replaced.... just a tad aggravating. 

It'd be nice to replace the mostly useless buttons in that bottom left thing with buttons for the ships I would actually want to look for...  most of the options in those just dont seem necessary, at least to me anyway.

EDIT:  Noticed the "custom narrow search" thing.... it doesnt find the blasted things either.  Constructor still says they are already out somewhere though.  Just... what.

EDIT 2: ARGH THEY WERE IN A TRANSPORT.   IT'S A CONSPIRACY!!!  Not that I needed them very badly, but it was just bugging me too much.  Argh.    Well, I finished that tutorial.  Whole thing held my attention very well all the way through.   Aside from one or two odd interface quirks.... yeah, this game is as good as I'd hoped.  I'll be on this one alot.  Next bit is to start learning what some of the bazillions of other things do exactly.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2014, 09:28:03 am by Misery »

Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Some feedback from me, as a new player.
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2014, 05:32:48 pm »
Don't worry, everyone feels first overwhelmed when he plays AI War for the first time. Even if you have plenty of experience in other strategy games you will most likely have this "WTF?!" moment at the start of your first game.
While a ship has a lot of stats you don't have to focus on every single stat from the start.

Focus more on hull and multiplicators because they are the most important stats of your ship. Attack doesn't matter that much if you attack a ship that is weak to your multiplicator.
Engine is only important if you or the AI use spider stuff (ships/turrets that target the engines to slow down ships).
Immunities are selx explaining but of course you have to look at enemy ships to tell which immunity is important.
You will eventually find out the rest, this game lives from experimenting.

Offline Aklyon

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Re: Some feedback from me, as a new player.
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2014, 06:06:41 pm »
Riot starships mount engine-damaging weapons too, and both you and the special forces get them. (Though only the player gets higher-mark ones i believe)

Offline Kahuna

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Re: Some feedback from me, as a new player.
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2014, 12:18:45 am »
Once again. Read descriptions.. I mean actually focus on what the description says.. study it. If you forget what x description said read it again. Pause if your friend.

Keep your fleet together and move it around with Transports.. which are much faster than the ships them selves.. you always know where your ships are.

Check global controls and keybindings.
Press the CTRL button in the lower left corner.. once again.. read everything. Check out all of the tabs.
Also check keybindings. Read everything and check out all of the tabs. When you check out the keybindings you might find something you didn't know existed. Like showing the number of your own ships in the galaxy map.

That's what I did when I started AI War for the first time. Also I just tested stuff. Choose a new bonus ship, read the description and compare it to the triangle ships aka Fighter, Bomber and Missile Frigate.
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline screamingpalm

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Re: Some feedback from me, as a new player.
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2014, 09:27:00 am »
Hi, first post here, been lurking for awhile. :)

I've really been enjoying this game lately- logged something over 200 hours over the past couple weeks, and... haven't won a game yet. :D
And that has been all on beginner script games so far. Came close once on a 60-system map- until I poked an AI home system and had no idea that the beeline the wasps-nest sent was indeed headed straight for my home system to kill me off (I should maybe rethink my stance on save-scum lol). Really want to win a game before trying other settings, but feel like I'm missing a lot of the rest of the game/fun! Not complaining at all though, most games I'd have beaten on the highest difficulty by now, so am very much enjoying losing actually (and I really do feel like I am improving each time, without even really reading pro tips from others). Took me a bit to get into the game initially, but is now one of the best I've ever had the pleasure of playing.

Offline Kahuna

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Re: Some feedback from me, as a new player.
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2014, 09:35:33 am »
I should maybe rethink my stance on save-scum lol
Don't let your ego in your way. Reloading, finding what went wrong and fixing it is the best way to learn.
EDIT: also there's a difference between save scumming and reloading. Save scumming is reloading over and over again when bad RNG kicks you in the teeth.. reloading so you get better RNG.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 09:39:46 am by Kahuna »
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline Misery

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Re: Some feedback from me, as a new player.
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2014, 10:09:40 am »
Okay, quick question:   What exactly are these "bonus ships" mentioned in a few places in the game?

Saw that when looking at all the things in the new game setup screens, dont know what the heck they are.

Offline Kahuna

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Re: Some feedback from me, as a new player.
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2014, 10:14:29 am »
Bonus ship is the ship you choose when you select a starting planet. All starting planets have different bonus/starting ship. Although nowadays you can change the staring/bonus ship by right clicking it.
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline Toranth

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Re: Some feedback from me, as a new player.
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2014, 11:00:19 am »
Okay, quick question:   What exactly are these "bonus ships" mentioned in a few places in the game?
To add to what Kahuna said, the Bonus ships are the extra units you get, that can vary from game to game.

Every player, Human and AI, gets a small core of units - Fighter, Bomber, Missile Frigate.  These are OK units, and balanced in a rock-paper-scissors manner.  Fighters kill Bombers, Bombers kill Frigates, Frigate kill Fighters.
In addition, the human player starts the game with one Bonus unit type per homeworld.  Bonus units are things like Space Tanks, Neinzul Tigers, or Spire Stealth Battleships.  Additional Bonus unit types can be unlocked by capturing ARSs, hacking AI Backup Servers, or acquiring Fabricators.  The AI unlocks more bonus units as AIP goes up.
Bonus units are more powerful on average than the base units, and frequently have special abilities.

Offline Cinth

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Re: Some feedback from me, as a new player.
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2014, 03:31:51 pm »
Don't be afraid to play a match with 1/1 vanilla AIs.  It can be a great way to explore non-combat related stuff (no big worries about having to have the perfect offense or defense).  There is a virtual ton of things buried in the game that aren't directly combat related to learn about.  Once you have a handle on that stuff (or most of it), start bumping up the difficulty.  Your first serious game should be against a 7 range pair of easier classed AIs.  Go up from there. 

From what I know of you, you'll get it down and be bashing in high 9s in no time.  :D
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline Alex Heartnet

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Re: Some feedback from me, as a new player.
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2014, 03:44:47 pm »
Don't be afraid to play a match with 1/1 vanilla AIs

Diff 1 is literally "I send an attack wave of 10 ships every hour".  You won't even have anything to shoot at.  Set it to 5 instead if you are derping around so you don't get too bored.  At Diff 5 the AI still won't put up much of a fight, but at least you'll actually see groups of AI ships instead of lone fighters.

For starting AI Types, I'll recommend going up against a Thief because it will demonstrate some interesting unit-specific mechanics.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 03:51:26 pm by Alex Heartnet »