Missle Frigate - Area Damage Immunity -> Serious Balance Problem

[Kjara]

If we are discussing multi-homeworld and multiplayer vs single player balance, honestly I think at high levels, single player tends to be quite a bit harder than either of these two cases.  I think one of the main reason is with waves, since (iirc at least) at 8,9 and 10 the ai's each get an extra wave, and 4 waves instead of 1 is a much larger difference than 11 waves instead of 8.  Any chance of reworking the wave mechanic to be at least a little nastier at higher player counts (perhaps something like 1 extra wave per 2 additional starting waves, so with 3 players it would go 3,5,7,9)?  I seem to recall hearing something about how ai reinforcements also scale at about 1/3rd of a player per additional player, any chance of pushing this up to 1/2 as well?

[carlosjuero]

Er... why does it have to be harder playing with a single planet? Multiple planet starts are supposed to be a way to add challenge, not the other way around. [Thats the way I understand it at least].

If we are discussing multi-homeworld and multiplayer vs single player balance, honestly I think at high levels, single player tends to be quite a bit harder than either of these two cases.  I think one of the main reason is with waves, since (iirc at least) at 8,9 and 10 the ai's each get an extra wave, and 4 waves instead of 1 is a much larger difference than 11 waves instead of 8.  Any chance of reworking the wave mechanic to be at least a little nastier at higher player counts (perhaps something like 1 extra wave per 2 additional starting waves, so with 3 players it would go 3,5,7,9)?  I seem to recall hearing something about how ai reinforcements also scale at about 1/3rd of a player per additional player, any chance of pushing this up to 1/2 as well?

[Diazo]

Er... why does it have to be harder playing with a single planet? Multiple planet starts are supposed to be a way to add challenge, not the other way around. [Thats the way I understand it at least].

If we are discussing multi-homeworld and multiplayer vs single player balance, honestly I think at high levels, single player tends to be quite a bit harder than either of these two cases.  I think one of the main reason is with waves, since (iirc at least) at 8,9 and 10 the ai's each get an extra wave, and 4 waves instead of 1 is a much larger difference than 11 waves instead of 8.  Any chance of reworking the wave mechanic to be at least a little nastier at higher player counts (perhaps something like 1 extra wave per 2 additional starting waves, so with 3 players it would go 3,5,7,9)?  I seem to recall hearing something about how ai reinforcements also scale at about 1/3rd of a player per additional player, any chance of pushing this up to 1/2 as well?

I think multi-planet starts were added to approximate a multi-player game in single-player game, not for any sort of increased/decreased challenge reason. This is why I always play single planet starts, it's how I understand the game to be balanced, one homeworld per player.

I do have to come down on the side of multi-homeworld starts being easier then single homeworlds aswell. The biggest reason is the higher ship cap on the specials. If you are playing a 4 planet start, your cap increased from 198 to 624 on Mk I's including all 4 special ships you take. You now have a ship cap that is 1706 ships higher (for Mk I) then a 4 person multi-player game. In multi you have Mk I fighters x4, but the specials don't get the x4 because each player takes their own, but you do get the specials x4 in a 4 homeworld start.

Regardless, I'm not sure where this thread has ended up now, but pretty much every point that's been raised in here can wait until after the Unity port imo.

[soMe_RandoM]

to end confusion can ammunition can be noted somewhere to be AOE so we can make judgments on what to unlock based off what we got?

[Diazo]

While such a tag would be nice, the current descriptions do tell you which ships are aoe capable so the information is there.

There actually aren't that many I don't think, just:

Heavy Beam Cannon
Zenith Beam Frigate
Beam Starship
Grenade Launcher
Flak Turret
Electric Turret
Electric Shuttle

and that's all I can think of. I may have missed one or two but it's pretty few units really.

D.

[keith.lamothe]

There's also the nanoswarm (which is only-barely-aoe) and the Riot-tazer, but I can't think of anything else off the top of my head.

[Spikey00]

(Don't forget nukes.)

[keith.lamothe]

Nukes don't do damage in an area, they do damage to an area

But there are also the lightning warheads (and even emp's and tachyons have a small lightning blast nowadays).