So, were combat starships overbuffed? (v. 6.019)

[TechSY730]

Basically, the title.

I've seen a few places that some people think that the starship buffs went a bit...too far.
So, I am gathering some feedback.

This is about the balance of beta version 6.019.

This covers both human usage and AI usage (sans exo waves).

Please ignore exo waves in your consideration; exo wave costs for ships are sort of up in the air right now.

A post describing why you feel the way you do and/or ideas about what to do about (if any are needed) are optional, but appreciated.
Also, backing up your opinions with numbers would also be appreciated, but also optional (as getting those numbers can be a pain  )


If you feel that the current options don't cover your opinion, then go ahead and post your opinion. If enough people share that opinion, I will add it as an option.

EDIT: Oops, listed wrong version number. Fixed.
EDIT2: Updated version number to latest version, as no starship changes were in that version.

[TechSY730]

I voted "Yes, but just a bit".

IMO, They are a tad too strong, but not like an order of magnitude too strong.


Also Kieth, can you check the "can remove and/or change votes" flag again?

[_K_]

Yep, the strength they offer for their resource price is in good balance right now.
However, their K costs are a bit too low for the advantages they provide.

They need either K cost increased, or their scale (HP*DPS vs Resource cost) decreased.

I'd suggest a 20% nerf, but that number is quite arbitrary and up to discussion.

[Aquohn]

For some reason, I don't think the Zenith/Spire starships are supposed to take traingle-cap-fuls of fire without batting an eyelid.

[chemical_art]

For me, the base stats are fine. However, the V's I think you should jump extra hoops for.

[Zeyi]

Only the zenith/spire seem to need minor nerfs, the rest seem fine in terms of resource and knowledge, except raids, which seem a bit knowledge heavy atm.

I think generally its far better now, I'd hate to see us undo the good work of the last couple of updates to starships and see them underpowered again. Especially with the reduced ship caps, whilst they are more powerful now I can't sit a couple of starships to defend as many border worlds as I used to be able to-I think it's all been a good tradeoff.

[Hearteater]

This applies mainly to the single cap Starships:

I could see a slight K increase.  Something small like 500-1000 tops.  But I think their general durability is just a touch too high.  Although any decrease in durability should probably come with an equal decrease in m+c.  So if 10% health gets pulled, reduce m+c by 10%.  The health-to-m&c ratio seems ok, just too much health in one body.  A split into a 2-cap unit might solve the problem with no change to cap health.

[LordSloth]

Tangent: are the fabricator only Beam and Warbird Starship UP?

[chemical_art]

Tangent: are the fabricator only Beam and Warbird Starship UP?

Very much so. I think. But they are cheap too.

[Diazo]

I'm thinking the stats themselves are fine, both combat and economically.

However the radar dampening needs to go, or at least get massively weaker.

I typically have a line of turrets across the front of my home command force field between the force field and the main threat axis.

If a spire starship goes off the side (chasing a harvester or something) and then comes in off-axis, so it is sitting off the end of my turret line rather then approaching it perpendicularly, easily 50% of my turrets can not engage the Spire Starship due to the dampening. They would have the range normally without the radar dampening so this is kind of frustrating to see on what is a pretty common threat as spire and zenith ships come in AI waves (once the mark level is high enough).

I also think that would solve the problem about being a little too survivable under the players control when attacking the AI.

The radar dampening was originally added back when the Zenith and Spire SS were the Mk III and IV ships in the flagship line to make them more survivable, however that is now redundant and it stacks with the changes a few patches ago to make them too survivable.

TL;DR: Pull the radar dampening and I think they are just about perfect.

D.

[TechSY730]

Agreed on the radar dampening thing. The one for the Zenith starship needs to be made weaker, and the one on the spire starship needs to go.

[chemical_art]

Agree on radar dampening going as a minor nerf to the craft

[LordSloth]

Oh, and I highly desire a buff to Plasma Siege Starship Engine health from 3,000, and maybe nerf of starship engine health across the board (to roughly the 50,000 range?). I find the idea of using engine damage to prevent plasma siege ships from damaging a shielded ion cannon or other expensive zenith tradeship project intriguing, but currently a single shot from an AI Plasma Siege Starship renders your plasma siege starships completely immobile.

[TechSY730]

Oh, and I highly desire a buff to Plasma Siege Starship Engine health from 3,000, and maybe nerf of starship engine health across the board (to roughly the 50,000 range?). I find the idea of using engine damage to prevent plasma siege ships from damaging a shielded ion cannon or other expensive zenith tradeship project intriguing, but currently a single shot from an AI Plasma Siege Starship renders your plasma siege starships completely immobile.

Yep the PSS is supposed to be relatively fragile, including engine health. However, the current engine health seems a tad extreme.

Engine health of the other starships may be worth nerfing a little as well. Maybe like 1.2x-1.5x what the gaurdians have? (Except for PSS, which should remain rather low for a low cap ship, though maybe not as low as it is now)

[Wingflier]

I think Radar Dampening is the major problem.

Aside from that, I think it's less of the Starships being overpowered than of the bonus ships (read: high-cap bonus ships) being underpowered.  Right now the game massively favors low-cap units, their benefits are too high, and their costs don't justify all the advantages they give.  This doesn't just apply to Starships but to lots of the low-cap bonus ships as well.

There are so many game mechanics which punish you for having a huge army, and very few which punish you for having a small army of elite units.

I think the costs are Starships is restrictive enough to make them balanced, but they are so much more cost effective than most fleetships because of faulty game mechanics, not because they are specifically overpowered imo.