So, turret balance

[Kahuna]

More turrets = more turtling
..but on the other hand..
more turrets = stronger "turtling prevention beachheads"
A Beachhead will stop Hybrids from turtling.

[Cinth]

So current game has given me a new perspective on Flak and Lightning turrets.

[Kahuna]

So current game has given me a new perspective on Flak and Lightning turrets.

They're even worse than you first thought?

[Radiant Phoenix]

Cinth, are you still playing that no-superweapons game from, "never got the memo"?

[Cinth]

So current game has given me a new perspective on Flak and Lightning turrets.

They're even worse than you first thought?

Actually, the AI unlocked Eye Bots.  800 EBs would wreck my turret lines. I put lightning and flaks down and the lines started holding better.

@RF: No.

[Radiant Phoenix]

Having thought about it some more, I've come to a more nuanced position:

Placing a few turrets (e.g., Fortresses, Gravity turrets, Tachyon turrets, or the higher marks of Heavy Beam Cannon) is fine. What I dislike is when there are enough that I'm CTRL+SHIFT+clicking repeatedly to place them.

[Toranth]

What I dislike is when there are enough that I'm CTRL+SHIFT+clicking repeatedly to place them.

ALT+SHIFT+click makes it go faster?   
(yeah, sorry, not helpful)

Semi-seriously, I do just ALT-SHIFT-mouse-down and wave the cursor around to place turrets sometimes.  Not much in single HW games, but in 8+ HW games, it's about the only way to do it.  Well, that and "Packed-line" auto-placing groups of 100 or so.

[keith.lamothe]

ALT+SHIFT+click makes it go faster?   
(yeah, sorry, not helpful)

Now you know how the AI felt when creating the situation in your avatar.

[Zeyurn]

So current game has given me a new perspective on Flak and Lightning turrets.

They're even worse than you first thought?

Lightning is always the best non HBC turret in terms of kill counts in every game I have ever played.

Flak used to be anemic, I am looking forward to trying them again.

[chemical_art]

Lightning is always the best non HBC turret in terms of kill counts in every game I have ever played.

Flak used to be anemic, I am looking forward to trying them again.

Flaks do do about the same damage now...if they manage to burst against a group that they have a bonus against...they are even worst now though against targets that they don't have a boost against, and considering the burst never hits just bonus targets...I feel the "buffs" of  they being a lot tougher and a hair of a bit longer ranged are instead really a side upgrade in practice. The K reductions are nice, but  all the turrets get it. In the end, flak turrets are still comparatively for me the worst turret.


I really, really think the "bursts" of the flak turret need to be buffed so their range is increased, or the burst maximum is reduced and base dps is increased.  The lightning turret has a lot easier time hitting its full damage against target, and has a higher base dps, and now is really tough...the flak turret still is overshadowed by the lightning turret in almost every meaningful way.

The bursts also really, really need to somehow be made more transparent (I.E. burst that hits up to X targets within Y range). This will make judging them more then a gut check.

[TechSY730]

Yea, highly focused multipliers doesn't really on a short ranged, immobile ship type.

If the flak turret could have its multiplier values knocked down by 1 or 2, but gain even more in base DPS in return, that would be cool. I wouldn't even mind it losing some of its newly gotten cap HP in return, as long as it remains the highest cap HP of the turrets.

I can't tell how large the burst radius is (for some reason, the "explosion" doesn't show on my machine), but it may be a bit too small. Or go with what chemical_art said, sacrifice some of its AOE type effects in return for more direct target DPS.


And yes, the X targets within Y range thing for any unit that uses it should be made clear on the description or command card or whatever somehow.

[TechSY730]

Someone posted something about this somewhere, but now I can't find it...

Anyways, what do people think about the sniper turret now?

Me? I think the stats are fine, but the knowledge cost is now questionable now it is facing competition from the Mk. II missile turret. Not sure what I would propose for a better knowledge cost though.


EDIT: However, as the infinite range engine damage is extremely useful, I think that 1250 (the standard for the other Mk. IIs) is too low. 2000 or 1750 maybe?

[chemical_art]

EDIT: However, as the infinite range engine damage is extremely useful, I think that 1250 (the standard for the other Mk. IIs) is too low. 2000 or 1750 maybe?

I think that if spider turrets were treated like snipers III, in that they had 3x stats and instead of radar dampening had engine damage, they would be worth 2.75k. (remember, they don't get sniper II's, so you lose a cap compared to other turrets)

Right now though, considering I could missle II and III for only 250 k more then spider turrets, it seems a no brainer.

[Radiant Phoenix]

Spider Turrets become a, "GET THIS!" unlock in Fallen Spire, because they give you Mk2 and Mk3 sniper modules, which are basically the long range weaponry of the entire spire fleet, because they don't have missiles.

[Aeson]

I'd personally rather see Missile Turrets get higher knowledge costs than see the Spider Turrets get lower knowledge costs. Mostly because the range on the missile turret is so much greater than the range on any of the other turrets without costing it a significant amount of DPS when compared against the Basic, Laser, and MLRS turrets. Plus, the Spider Turret is in some ways more of a utility turret than anything else.