So, is Showdown fun?

[Qatu]

 I've got a game that's basically won, normally i'd just abandon it because the homeworlds have a very unfun combo of posts I don't wanna face (I expect 2h-3h slog to take both down while my defenses probably can't be broken) and play another game, but I got good unlocks this game and could probably get the showdown thing going pretty quick.

 Anyway, question is, is it fallen spire under another name? The wiki faq page seems to imply so, while forum posts seem really spoilery so I didn't check them. I don't want big spoilers but if it's just a pile of exo waves i'd rather do something different.

 Also, is it just me or do the showdown devices always seem to appear 1 close to player start, 1 close to each AI homeworld, and 1 somewhere else?

[Toranth]

If your question is "Do I do something other than try to not die while the AI proactively tries to kill me", then the answer is no.  In that respect, it is like the final part of the Fallen Spire campaign.

However, the "How will the AI try to kill me" is different, and the AI's goal is a bit different, and it is MUCH harder (currently some balance issues).  I suggest you try it, just so you've had the experience, at least.  I enjoy it, personally.  There are... other opinions, as well.

Go ahead, give it a try.  Won't take much more than an hour - and possibly much less  >D

[Qatu]

 Turns out i'm going out tonight so no playtime for a while but i'll keep the save and try it out sometime, I just don't care much if it's just exo waves vs 4 chokepoints, but if there's a more to it i'll give it a try.

 Thanks for replying!

[Aklyon]

Its certainly more than just exos...

[Tridus]

It's a much faster way to end the game than a 3 hour HW slog, and a good way to test just how unbreakable your defenses really are.

[keith.lamothe]

and it is MUCH harder (currently some balance issues)

My memory's not so great, where did we talk about those?  I remember a fairly significant thread during VotM's development but I thought we'd dealt with most of the concerns raised there.

[TechSY730]

and it is MUCH harder (currently some balance issues)

My memory's not so great, where did we talk about those?  I remember a fairly significant thread during VotM's development but I thought we'd dealt with most of the concerns raised there.

I think one of the big remaining things is the interaction with fallen spire. (They seem to multiply together, such that even massive cheat gotten defenses literally stronger than the rest of the non-showdown related AI owned stuff in the galaxy combined, including the AI homeworlds, were not enough to hold off the later stages)


(no, I'm not dead, life is just busy right now )

[chemical_art]

I think one of the big remaining things is the interaction with fallen spire.

To put it another way, if the fallen spire campaign, with all its capital ship toys and superfortish defenses, has its "defense" phase easier then the Showdown devices which get a much limitted amount of toys on top then the fallen spire will always win out. The fact the "bosses" of showdown devices [which go on offense] wipes the floor of the bosses of the fallen spire [which are strickly defensive for the AI] only highlights this.

[Lord Of Nothing]

I thought this thread http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,13643.15.html summarised the problem with fallen spire and showdown quite well- namely, the showdown fleets eat the Imperial Spire Galactic Reclamation Fleet Of Awesomeness faster than a ravenous starving Mk5 Hunter-Devourer chocoholic eats a single dwarf-sized chocolate bar. This may suggest a slight power disparity.

[Toranth]

and it is MUCH harder (currently some balance issues)

My memory's not so great, where did we talk about those?  I remember a fairly significant thread during VotM's development but I thought we'd dealt with most of the concerns raised there.

Basically, as others have said, there's some major interaction between the Fallen Spire and the Showdown.  I can do a Showdown with Champions, Golems, and Spirecraft in any combination, but in my mind, Showdown and Fallen Spire are mutually exclusive game choices.

[Tridus]

If you have both Showdown and FS on, there is absolutely no reason to use Showdown over the Exogalactic Transceiver unless you REALLY want to make life harder on yourself. The Transceiver event is far easier than Showdown is with FS progressed that far.

[Toranth]

I thought this thread http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,13643.15.html summarised the problem with fallen spire and showdown quite well- namely, the showdown fleets eat the Imperial Spire Galactic Reclamation Fleet Of Awesomeness faster than a ravenous starving Mk5 Hunter-Devourer chocoholic eats a single dwarf-sized chocolate bar. This may suggest a slight power disparity.

Following up again here.  I got a little bored today, and tried to figure out exactly how crazy Eternaly_Lost's experience was.
In the one mini-exo-wave was 90,000,000 points and 650,000 Strength. 
The total max human capacity for units (Normal caps, single homeworld) if the player had somehow unlocked all ship types Mk I-V and built all fixed defenses (fortresses and turrets), was about 250,000 Strength.  If you include caps of Spirecraft and 8 of each Golem, it's still only 350,000 Strength.  BTW, Fallen Spire still has arbitrarily assigned Strength in the export tables (5 Str).
I tried computing actual stats for both the exo and human sets, and while there might be something wrong with my script, I was still getting about a 2-to-1 on DPS.

And that was a mini-exo, one of 10.  My notes from the beta give a 4x and 10x estimate for the mid and final exos (boss excluded).

[keith.lamothe]

Ok, yea, the impact of FS on the showdown numbers is clearly out of whack

FWIW, it doesn't count the FS against you if you don't have any (I think it counts by city hubs or something like that).

At 5-cities+capitol FS progression, how much harder should the showdown be than if you didn't have FS on at all?  Note that "not any harder at all" would not really produce a satisfactory result, just for different reasons than the current problem.

[Tridus]

At 5-cities+capitol FS progression, how much harder should the showdown be than if you didn't have FS on at all?  Note that "not any harder at all" would not really produce a satisfactory result, just for different reasons than the current problem.

Assuming no other Showdown modifiers, I'd say it has to be in line with the Exogalactic Transciever event at the end of FS. If it's not, then doing that one just makes more sense considering you can more easily bottleneck it (due to not having to defend Showdown devices in out of the way places).

[keith.lamothe]

Assuming no other Showdown modifiers, I'd say it has to be in line with the Exogalactic Transciever event at the end of FS. If it's not, then doing that one just makes more sense considering you can more easily bottleneck it (due to not having to defend Showdown devices in out of the way places).

I think it's fine if doing it the FS way is somewhat easier, since that has way more prereqs than the showdown devices, but sure.  But how much heavier is the transceiver event than a no-superweapons showdown?

I mean, I can make the exo numbers line up to some extent, but there's a lot of things in a showdown that don't compare as readily numerically.