So, Enclave Starships

[keith.lamothe]

They did pretty well over here.  They've been buffed a lot over the years but I guess it's just not been enough

I could just reduce the K costs and do that IV/V split (with IV losing its mkIV building capacity if you have no advanced factories) folks keep asking for, but would that actually make you want to use them?

Or is it more a problem with their usability (too much micro/interface-interaction needed to make good use of them, keep them along, keep them alive, etc)?

Also, is there a point in keeping the drones?  They don't seem particularly popular.  They could be buffed, though I don't want to make them too potent or they become a kind of "youngling that's available in every game", which I don't want.  My guess is that they involve more micro than folks want to deal with.

Anyway, this is my current guess on how to get the enclave starship to stop. winning. polls. :

1) do IV/V split
2) Set K cost from 0/2000/2000/14000 => 0/1000/2000/2000/12000
3) add cloaking (that breaks when spawning a ship); bear in mind it already has radar dampening.
4) add brave toggle for these

But would that be enough, or would it just be one of those perpetual "too much hassle to use" situation?

[Trandrin]

I love my enclave. Drones are nice so please keep them. Lowering their knowledge cost might help out.

Usually fleet enters system with the enclave right behind them. I keep it powered down until the fighting starts, then it churns out a long line of fodder to hassle the enemies. Downside is you need to unlock turrets in decent numbers for large numbers of drones.

[Cinth]

I've used an Enclave once since the drones function was added.. and that was the freebie MK II from the merc docks...
That was pretty much just a joke on my part to use drones as target saturation against the AI. 

[Wingflier]

I think the IV/V Split is important. Very few players have 14k knowledge to just throw around.

Otherwise the Enclaves are in a pretty good place, it's more of a problem of high cap ships at the moment, which is obviously what Enclaves love to build. Though Neinzul ships in general seem to be in a pretty good place as long as an Eye isn't involved. Though the irony is that if an Eye isn't involved, the planet generally isn't that troublesome to begin with

[keith.lamothe]

the freebie MK II from the merc docks...

Sure, free.  And the Zenith Trader has a free MkV Ion Cannon Bridge for you

[Cinth]

the freebie MK II from the merc docks...

Sure, free.  And the Zenith Trader has a free MkV Ion Cannon Bridge for you

Umm... it didn't cost me any K to unlock?  I had resources and E to spare by that point in my game.

Those MK V Ions.... I've built those before... 

[keith.lamothe]

Those MK V Ions.... I've built those before... 

Maybe when you finish paying for one of those, the Trader should just retire.

[Faulty Logic]

Also, is there a point in keeping the drones?  They don't seem particularly popular.

Yes. They are the main reason I unlock enclaves, and wanted the IV/V split.

1) do IV/V split
2) Set K cost from 0/2000/2000/14000 => 0/1000/2000/2000/12000
3) add cloaking (that breaks when spawning a ship); bear in mind it already has radar dampening.
4) add brave toggle for these

But would that be enough, or would it just be one of those perpetual "too much hassle to use" situation?

That would definitely be a good start. You might want the mkV to only cost 9000. You could also add additional drone variety corresponding to other turrets (pretty please?).

They could also stand to be a little tougher (they die as soon as a big battle looks at them funny.

Don't worry about the hassle. People who don't want to use them won't.

[TechSY730]

The lack of a "brave enclave starships" option is the biggest thing holding me back from using them.

The Mk. IV/V split would be nice too, but not as important in my mind.

Also, maybe double the caps of drones, so they have 1/2 the cap stats of their respective turrets rather than 1/4? Or would doubling their individual stats but leave cap the same, which would accomplish the same effect on cap stats but make each individual one more likely to survive long enough to be noticed.

[Cinth]

Those MK V Ions.... I've built those before... 

Maybe when you finish paying for one of those, the Trader should just retire.

It took a long while   The build rate on it is just insane.

[Faulty Logic]

I don't think doubling their cap would do much unless you also decreased their build time.

If you really wanted to buff drones you could give them wormhole traversal (but that might start horning in on youngling turf).

[TechSY730]

I don't think doubling their cap would do much unless you also decreased their build time.

If you really wanted to buff drones you could give them wormhole traversal (but that might start horning in on youngling turf).

Which is why I edited my above post to also include the idea of doubling individual stats but leave cap the same.

[PokerChen]

Well, I have mark II already every game to simplify reinforcement of mobile fleet defense.

- Adding the brave option would only really help with the initial selection since I already have them in the same control group.
- IMO adding Stealth wouldn't have much point because (1) they seem to be significantly lower on the target list since addition of radar dampening, and (2) an Enclave that isn't producing is somewhat of a dead-weight. The things that it produces are already meant to be its defense, right? Right?
- I like drones, but my problem with them is that I'm running out of control groups to turn them on and off separately from the rest of the group.* Instead of that, I would rather love a with-selection binding key that toggles build queue without powering down. Is it hidden somewhere and I'm just blind? It vastly simplifies drone use when you group enclaves with a fleet-ball: grab fleet, hit button, drones fill the sky, hit button again, stop wasting resources.

* Fleet, fast-attack, adjunct (teleporters/artillery golem/etc.), repair, zombard/implosion/etc.... you get the point.

[orzelek]

Drones need to be more durable and maybe a bit faster so that enclave itself doesn't need to stand next to enemies for them to work.

But I think my main gripe is the micro. Since I really never use FRD I would need to specifically put only enclaves into it to make drones attack. Would it be possible to make some kind of "Drones auto FRD" toggle along with brave enclaves one ?

[chemical_art]

I used to use these a ton, but my usage of them has scaled back a lot because of two things. Because space docks can almost be just as effective in the vast majority of cases.

so i propose that they need to differentiate more, or have more utility, in addition to reducing micro

1. not sure if even possible, but if it can be made that unlocking mk x enclave automatically unlocks drones of mk x-1 in addition to the usual method of turrets that can work. or, drop turrets altogether, and make drones just part of the enclave. if this was done, then k costs could conceivably be the same.

2. cloaking idea is nice. with micro cloakers can do it anyway, so have them passively do so greatly reduces the micro.

3. I've suggested this before, but a toggle of having the units of enclaves automatically being in frd would reduce micro. brae enclaes would help too.

4. the mk split. that, too, would help, since even i, hater of irreplaceables, cannot justify the current k costs 95% of the time

5. health buff. starship level of health, at least 10mil per mark.