So, Enclave Starships

[Aeson]

My impression is that the only problem the Enclave IV has is that most people aren't willing to spend the knowledge to unlock it in a normal game. There's nothing particularly unbalanced about it; rather, people are disappointed that there is this one really expensive ship that they never unlock because they don't have a use for replaceable Mk IV fleetship production facilities. In Fallen Spire campaigns, or exo-heavy games, Enclave IVs are almost the only way to retain access to Mk IV production, and at least in FS campaigns where you try to conquer a large empire the high knowledge cost is a relatively minor obstacle. Losing access to a replaceable Mk IV production facility is something I'd kind of regret, even though I don't use it very often. Not everything needs to be balanced for use in normal games, even if it's available in a normal game.

*Note that when I said "FS campaigns where you try to conquer a large empire" I meant "a large empire for an FS campaign".

[Hearteater]

Unit clutter in games can be a problem though, especially for new players.  But even for veterans.  The Mark IV Enclave is somewhat of a trap for new players.  Veterans know it isn't really worth it except maybe in a few nitch cases.  But a new player may scrap and save their K to buy it in a normal game and that will basically lose them the game.  That's not a fun way to lose.

FS is probably the only game in which a tech unlock for Mark IVs might be reasonable, and again, I'd rather they get that ability as part of the late game FS units you get.  The Spire Space Dock or whatever, can help the humans by producing Mark IVs for us.  I think that would be a more fun way of handling the situation.  Heck, then there could be a cheat for ZaneWolfe that just spawns the Spire Space Dock.

[TechSY730]

Oh yea, there is already a cheat that spawns a Mk. IV factory.

So I guess the loss of a rebuildable Mk. IV factory equivalent wouldn't be such a huge deal for those who just like that sort of cheese.

[keith.lamothe]

The hacking changes (which are part of the work involved for the upcoming expansion; so are relatively likely to happen) will give you a way to permanently unlock mkIV building capacity via hacking an advanced factory, so I think that's a suitable long-term replacement for the current (albeit rarely used) strategic option of spending 15,000 K or whatever to do it.  In the meantime, yes, the cheat code would serve as the gap closer.

It's not that I'd mind having an MSD mkII for absurd K, but just not having that button on the tech menu would help put that issue to rest, I think.

[PokerChen]

If it's worth anything, I also use mk-IVs if the situation is right. I think having a couple of younglings / autobombs dramatically increases their utility. On the other hand, this is the whole point of dedicating them to drone production isn't it? More in line with the original vision of enclaves.

[ZaneWolfe]

I still say having the option get it without cheats should be available. I don't cheat every game, but I do still have the exos and FS every game. Perhaps having the option in the tech tree but having it marked as something only really useful when you have a large empire? If I recall the Ion MKV and the Nuke MKIII have something in their text saying that they are something you should almost never use correct? Something similar can be done with this. That way the "newbie trap" part of it is not really an issue. If you read the description it makes it clear that you probable wont unlock this.

Secondly, with the idea of the mobile space dock, perhaps we could get a mobile starship constructor to go with it? I think the cap on MRS is 9, so maybe make the cap on the MSD 5 and on a MSC it would be 5 as well? Not sure how well that would work, more of a random idea that came to me.

PS: For the hacking thing, is it going to work with the ASC as well? And/or Fabs?

[Dichotomy]

Want mini hive golems for the enclaves. I don't really care about what happens WRT a replaceable factIV.