So, about 'dem turrets

[RCIX]

Flak turrets feel like utter crap even against their bonuses =/ Which is too bad, because they have some valuable bonuses (mainly close combat). Who even uses the 75% instead of 25% under forcefields bonus? Lightning turrets are great in theory but in practice you only want them around wormholes but they go off too easily. Basic turrets have always been unimpressive to me. Not sure why.

I just noticed all turrets reload speeds save laser are really high. I'd like to see this change on a few at least in a non-DPS affecting way (Basic and Flak, perhaps?)

Sniper turrets feel okay but almost like the arachnid functions should be rolled into the base and its cap doubled.

[TechSY730]

Because of the tendency to focus on problems with the game in this forum, here is what I like about turrets.

They generally seem to have a good range given their other stats (flak turret excluded of course).

Radar dampening on Mk. II and higher.*

Beam turrets are awesome. Mk. IV is downright scary strong. 

Missile turrets fulfill the role of "squishy artillery" very well; I'm please with their performance.

The drone thing of the enclave is a nice bonus, even though I do find it hard to work into my micro techniques, or rather lack thereof.

Even though the basic turret is one of the weaker turrets, they are one of the most cost efficient too, both with metal/crystal/energy costs and knowledge costs.
Often times when getting higher marks of turrets, basic turret Mk. II is my first choice, and I then choose other Mk. IIs if needed.
I like their nature as the "cost effective but cap below average" they have. It gives them character.

Sniper turrets may be weak on the DPS, but their ability to, well, snipe across the planet's space is amazing, and IMO is enough to keep them very useful. They are a wonder for dealing with stray "stragglers". They also have a pretty nice targetting logic.
Not sure why they still have a very high cap though. Their individual stats aren't even all that bad compared to the more "mid-cap" turrets. Is it sort of to allow them a "set it and forget it" type thing for un-important planets?

Spider turrets are all of the awesome of the sniper turret, but with even better stalling capability thanks to the engine damage.

Tractor turrets feel like they are in a good place right now. Tough enough and effective enough to be able to effectively stall a wave, but not so strong such that they feel like they can just completely shut down waves.
When paired with grav turrets, the stalling capability is amazing. Especially if you throw in some spider turrets as well.


*I understand why Mk. I versions don't have it, being a "pre-unlocked thing", and I would like that to stay. It also serves as a way to give incentive to try the higher marks, though this may need some better "advertising" that Mk. II+ can provide this.

[chemical_art]

Mk I turrets are fine. the problem is upgrading them. spending k on them is a losing proposition.. the increaswd defenses cannot overcome the increaded attqcks from aip. so i never unlock ii except basuc turrets.

[Fluffiest]

Might this investigation benefit from a poll; "which turret types do you unlock?"

[Radiant Phoenix]

I almost always unlocked (in 6.009):

• Spider Turret
• Laser Turret Mk2
• Heavy Beam Turret Mk4
• Basic Turret Mk2
• Grav Turret Mk1
• Tachyon Turret Mk1
• Mini-Forts (and every Fort I could get my hands on)

[chemical_art]

Thinking about it more, aside from flak turrets whose bonus dps is lacking, the other turrets are OK.

They just cost way to much K to unlock I find. The result is the only turret that I unlock purely for the turrets is the basic one, because it's K is a good value.

[RCIX]

@chemical_art: What about beam cannons? I think I agree with your general premise, though I find it's worth unlocking a couple of more types just for the caps (missile turrets and MLRS generally, just because they have critical bonuses to clean up a lot of big threats)

[Wingflier]

Well, I don't unlock a lot of turrets simply because I'm a low-AIP, offense-based type of player.

Like I said before my biggest problem with turrets right now is probably the Lightning Turret just because its mechanics make it so useless.  Ideally it seems the most powerful over a wormhole, but its first strike gets completely wasted, then most of the units are gone before it shoots again (or it's dead).

Putting it near your Command Station under a shield is also an option I guess, but the first strike still gets wasted on the first unit that wanders in range, and you'll be lucky in many situations if your shields hold up for 18 seconds for it to even fire again.

Bad design imo.

[_K_]

Alright, lets see...
Basic turrets: bread and butter. MKII has excellent cost and its the first turret upgrade i unlock. Decent damage, OK range.

Sniper turret: infinite range, complete armor piercing, huge cap. They are always great to have and i always put some on every planet i have.
Spider turret: a great upgrade for the sniper, but 3000 K is quite a high cost, so its not first in the unlock priority list.

Laser turret: its kinda like basic turrets, except with different hull bonuses, and MKII+ is much more expensive, so i rarely unlock it. The MKIs are nice and are a great addition to any defensive turret pile.

MLRS: Kinda nice range lets it often cover more than 1 wormhole. The damage it deals looks extremely low. You see all those missiles flying, then they all hit and nothing happens. As with laser turrrets, the upgrades are too expensive and as result are low-priority.

Missile: excellent range, can usually cover all wormholes at once. Decent damage as well. The upgrades are expensive so i rarely take them, but generally its a great turret to have.

Lightning: Even with their cool AOE thing, they seem to be doing very little damage, even when clumped together. You place like 20 of them, and every 18 seconds (which is very long) they deal a little damage to everything around. With their limited range, the DPS seems too low. Oh, and they also have a very low cap, so 20 is actually alot.

Flak turret: Same as lightning, but even worse.

Tractor: just awesome. MKII is quite expensive but it is a massive improvement over MKI so i sometimes buy it if i have spare K.

Gravity: MKI is an instant unlock. They are really great at stalling things, especially the ones that are immune to tractors. Since you dont need more than a few per planet, rarely run out of MKI ones, and as result dont usually need MKIIs.

Counter-whatever turrets: too situational, i basically never use them even though i heard they have their uses.

HBC: great damage, MKI is extremely cheap and is usually bought either instantly or within first 16 000 K. Scale great with marks, so i often consider geting MKII and even higher ones.

Forts: Atrocious energy costs, but otherwise insanely strong. I still do believe energy right now is in state of slight OPness, so as result these things are still too easy to use. I know its alot of energy, but the advantage you get is even bigger!

Module-fort: Incredibly strong, yet comes at the same energy price as just one regular fort. It may be not as strong as a cap of forts, but then it is not NEARLY as energy expensive. Generally a great deal.

Mini-forts: those things come with a bonus of not forcing you to consider your caps, and the price is quite nice as well. Great thing to have, and with 1000 K cost, they become worth purchasing even when you have just a few systems.

[Faulty Logic]

I tend to unlock Basic/Missile/Laser/MLRS/HBC mkII and grav Is if playing with exos, those turrets to maximum if playing FS, and none of them playing base-game. Spiders are situational.

Lightning/flak turrets are only good in combination with gravity or tractors.

Fortresses feel right: good for medium-big empires.

[chemical_art]

@chemical_art: What about beam cannons? I think I agree with your general premise, though I find it's worth unlocking a couple of more types just for the caps (missile turrets and MLRS generally, just because they have critical bonuses to clean up a lot of big threats)

I find that beams straddle the line. If they were like Zenith beams, where they go through multiple units, I'd buy them in a heartbeat. Since they don't, due to their low caps, I don't buy them but if I need more dps after forts I'll pick them up.

For me, in general my thought process is "If my offense is so behind AI Waves that I need more then forts, I've done something wrong". Remember, turrets aren't in a vacuum. Their power must be compared to mobile craft, with the lens that, ultimately, you have to have expand your offense to win.

[Bognor]

Even though the basic turret is one of the weaker turrets...

Curious: In what sense?  Do you just mean range?  Basic Turrets' base and bonus cap DPS is roughly the same as that of Missile, Lazer, and MLRS Turrets, and with their desirable bonuses against heavy and ultra-heavy hulls, I consider Basic Turrets comparable in overall utility.

     *     *     *

I agree with _K_ that MLRS are underwhelming.  The DPS is a tad lower than the other turrets', and much of it is absorbed by targets' armor.  Their superior range doesn't compensate for their mediocre hull bonuses.  But the best way to fix MLRS Turrets is probably to fix the light/swarmer-type ships they should excel against.

[TechSY730]

The turrets could certainly use a balance, or at least, "normalization" pass. Each of their roles seem to be reasonable roles, it's just things like cap health, cap average DPS, and cap vs. bonus DPS need tweaking to bring them more into a common "line". Then maybe the knowledge costs could be pushed to a more common baseline (for the standard turrets, the beam, tractor, gravity, and sniper turrets are "strange" enough to deserve considering their knowledge progression separately)

[Radiant Phoenix]

Remember, turrets aren't in a vacuum. Their power must be compared to mobile craft, with the lens that, ultimately, you have to have expand your offense to win.

But turrets do give you better offense!

And not just in Fallen Spire -- unlocking a Mk2 Basic, Laser, MLRS, or Missile turret unlocks a new type of drone on the Mk1 and Mk2 Neinzul starships. (Mk3 Neinzul starships require the Mk3 versions of those turrets)

[Diazo]

In general, I find turrets to be alright. They get significantly higher DPS in exchange for being stationary.

My biggest complaint with them comes back to the new starships.

The radar dampening on the Zenith and Spire SS makes my turrets almost useless if they stop and pick stuff off from max range.

After a single Spire SS (pretty sure it was Mk I) took on my home command station's static defenses, which consisted of 100million HP of FF and about 200 turrets, and won, I've made a point of keeping a mobile ship reserve on defense.

I've also changed my turret placement though, so I'm not sure it could do the same with the setup I use currently.

This is perhaps a symptom of radar dampening itself though, and not a complaint against turrets themselves.


The only other thing would be knowledge. Knowledge costs in general seem to have slowly been going down, so the high mark turrets being as expensive as they are makes them a little more expensive then the current Knowledge model probably warrants.

Nothing really serious, but if you unlock multiple high mark turrets, you probably are not getting as much bang for your buck as you should.

No math on that at this point, but that's my current feeling about turrets and their costs.

D.