Author Topic: Ship Target Priorities  (Read 1983 times)

Offline Entrenched Homperson

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Ship Target Priorities
« on: September 27, 2011, 01:43:20 pm »
 Quick question about ships with debuff effects similar to paralyzers. How hard would it be to change their behavior so they seek to affect the most targets as possible with their effect? Like a Paralyzer has 2 targets in range, one is already paralyzed and the other isn't, so it switches targets? Its a litte tedious manually doing it, and it does make a difference.

 I realise AI War isn't the focus right now, but it would be intresting to see if it's an effective behavior for a few ships, or even if it would be particularly usefull. :)
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 07:38:43 pm by Entrenched Homperson »
Options are deadly.... :O :O :O

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Ship Target Priorities
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2011, 01:45:28 pm »
It already has logic for paralyzers to prioritize targets that aren't "capped" on their paralysis amount, though it doesn't go super-aggressive on firing one shot at each ship that can be paralyzed; it will stack up the debuff to the extent that it's useful and then move on.  But I haven't tested that logic in a long time.
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: Ship Target Priorities
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2011, 02:26:33 pm »
What about reclaimers? Will they seek out reclaimable stuff that isn't at full cap first?

Offline PokerChen

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Re: Ship Target Priorities
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2012, 12:39:31 am »
I'd like to bump this thread and flag the paralyzer targeting priorities.  Am currently trying out the paralyzers on a 2HW game, and I'm finding that they are concentrating fire too much on single targets, leaving a lot of ships un-touched and resulting in very heavy attrition.

Will check this explicitly in a test later, but  in a fleet-combat situation, I would always prefer the super-aggressive option of 1 ship-1 target (at most 3 ships - 1 target) so as to minimise effective enemy fire-power.

Thanks.

= = =
 EDIT: I'm inspecting the targeting patterns closely at the moment... Using a double-cap of paralyzers on either mark-I or mark-II. /THese are some of the observations...
 (1) 3 attempts. When I send it into a wormhole by itself, they seem to actively attempt to paralyse all of the ships around a guardpost (under 20). I cannot test this for larger cases since they don't last long enough .

 (2a) Attempt 1. When using them to defend a wave attack interspersed a group, they instead tend to focus fire on a few ship... :(
 (2b) Attempt 2. When using them to defend a wave attack as a separate group, their initial shots will paralyses a collection of ships (reaches the maximum of 3 minutes on some, less on others). However, after the first one or two volleys they still switch towards focus firing one or two ships. :(
 (2c) Attempt 3 and 4. They seem to be intent on keeping some ships at max paralysis and gunning down others regardless of paralysis

 The above behaviour leaves much to be desired. A cap of 160 paralysers stuns on average ~10 ships maximum in a given volley and leave the rest to slaughter them. In my assessment this leaves them as practically useless - why would I want to have 10 out of 100 bombers permanently paralysed at 180 seconds while the other 90 kills my CC?
 No, I would rather have 100 of 100 bombers paralysed at 18 seconds each. For the ship-type to function at all it must remove a significant number of ships from the enemy arsenal on a cap-for-cap basis.* On this point, using the cap of 3 minutes is a limit for retargetting is a mistake. Arguably, a paralysis that lasts slightly longer than the reload time of the firing ship is the maximum, since this always leads to stun-lock. For a ship that has less HP than an engineer, less than a third of fighters, and regularly facing many hundreds of ships I must demand no less.   I'm pausing that game for now pending paralyzer changes.

For higher marks, instead of increasing paralysis time I would recommend decreasing reload. That is paralysis x8 for all marks and reload time of 9-Mark seconds. Shot-numbers are the prime limitation to the effectiveness of paralysers, not paralysis time. I'm excluding increasing number of shots for now (very unbalancing).

A maximum of two shots should ever be applied by paralyzers per target, since most of them will survive that 8 seconds for the next shot. Therefore, the ship targeting logic should say:

If ( target-paralysis < 9 sec. ) shoot target, else Find next target in list.
If all targets in range are paralysed >= 9sec or non-paralysable, then obey normal logic. Alternatively, shoot target with smallest paralysis time remaining (possibly a calculation that's more expensive than its worth).

* Possibly 1/2 to 2/3 to possibly 3/4 of a cap of similar enemy ships per cap of paralyzers. I don't know where a convenient break-point would be, but the paralyzer's natural counter are ship-types with higher caps than it anyway. From experience enemy fleetships prioritise paralysers above most of the fleet, which is pretty bad.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 08:47:16 am by zharmad »

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Ship Target Priorities
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2012, 09:08:31 am »
Excellent investigation of paralyzer targeting; improvements on my todo list :)
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: Ship Target Priorities
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2012, 09:36:42 am »
On a less important note, can their be a slight tweak to melee ships auto-targetting?

Melee ships care much more about proximity than normal ships do, because you know, they have to be right on top of something to do anything to it. So when it is weighting together all of the various factors, if the ship is a melee ship, can proximity be given a higher weight for consideration than normal? (Except for youngling nanoswarms. Their current "spread out" behavior is the right one due to the nature of their damage)

This should help reduce that cases where a melee ship takes off across the planet (potentially through armies of enemy units), even though it has perfectly good targets near it.

Admittedly, not entirely my idea. This case and the base of this suggestion was from someone else. But for the life of me, I can't find who posted it or where it was posted.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Ship Target Priorities
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2012, 02:33:57 pm »
Melee ships already care more about proximity than other ship types, but I can take a look :)
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