Shield Bearers are the bane of my existence

[Kahuna]

There are many kryptonies but the Shield Bearer is mine. Those things are infuriatingly overpowered. About as infuriating as Tackle Drone Launchers.. except Shield Bearers can't be disabled. haaaate those things.. I refuse to use them myself even though they would make winning any 10/10 easy peasy since I have at least some self respect. Is it possible to manually edit AI War files to nerf of remove these things?

[Draco18s]

Is it possible to manually edit AI War files to nerf of remove these things?

Probably.  How familiar are you with machine code?

[Kahuna]

Is it possible to manually edit AI War files to nerf of remove these things?

Probably.  How familiar are you with machine code?

What exactly do you mean by "machine code"?
I've done some modding with the FinalBigEditor and hex editing a couple of times. And I've written batch scripts.

[Cinth]

Machine code is what all programing languages ultimately translate down to.  It actually runs your pc (which is a machine).

[Toranth]

Is it possible to manually edit AI War files to nerf of remove these things?

Probably.  How familiar are you with machine code?

What exactly do you mean by "machine code"?
I've done some modding with the FinalBigEditor and hex editing a couple of times. And I've written batch scripts.

If you really want, whenever you notice the AI get them, you can remove them from the list of unlocked ships by editing the save file.  When uncompressed, it's a text file, so it doesn't require any special tools.

For a named player, find the section that starts with "04".  Note:  There is no space, colon, comma or anything between this 04 and the later numbers.
aka, find "|04".  The numbers after that are the IDs of the ship types.
"|04239" is ship 239, the Lightning Frigate.
"|04239:230" is two ships, 239 - Lightning Frigate, and 230 - Spire Corvette.

Shieldbearer is ID 28, so look for |0428, or |04xx:28:yy:zzz somewhere on the line for the AI player.  Remove that '28', and the AI will be unable to use Shieldbearers.  Unfortunately, I think it goes back on the "potential unlock" list, so in the worst case you may need to do this several times.  It also probably won't get rid of any Shieldbearers that already exist - just prevent new ones from spawning.

[Draco18s]

Is it possible to manually edit AI War files to nerf of remove these things?

Probably.  How familiar are you with machine code?

What exactly do you mean by "machine code"?
I've done some modding with the FinalBigEditor and hex editing a couple of times. And I've written batch scripts.

Basically, if you want to tweak their stats so they're not so OP you're going to have to dig into the game's DLL files with a hex editor and locate their definition.  Which, frankly, would be a nightmare.  As you'd be looking at it as a series of machine code instructions.

[Kahuna]

If you really want, whenever you notice the AI get them, you can remove them from the list of unlocked ships by editing the save file.  When uncompressed, it's a text file, so it doesn't require any special tools.

For a named player, find the section that starts with "04".  Note:  There is no space, colon, comma or anything between this 04 and the later numbers.
aka, find "|04".  The numbers after that are the IDs of the ship types.
"|04239" is ship 239, the Lightning Frigate.
"|04239:230" is two ships, 239 - Lightning Frigate, and 230 - Spire Corvette.

Shieldbearer is ID 28, so look for |0428, or |04xx:28:yy:zzz somewhere on the line for the AI player.  Remove that '28', and the AI will be unable to use Shieldbearers.  Unfortunately, I think it goes back on the "potential unlock" list, so in the worst case you may need to do this several times.  It also probably won't get rid of any Shieldbearers that already exist - just prevent new ones from spawning.

Ok thanks. That helps a lot. I guess I could replace the Shield Bearer with another ship.. then I wouldn't feel like I've been cheating.

Basically, if you want to tweak their stats so they're not so OP you're going to have to dig into the game's DLL files with a hex editor and locate their definition.  Which, frankly, would be a nightmare.  As you'd be looking at it as a series of machine code instructions.

I'm ready to do anything.
Maybe.


Thanks.

[Fleet Unity]

Is it possible to manually edit AI War files to nerf of remove these things?

Probably.  How familiar are you with machine code?

What exactly do you mean by "machine code"?
I've done some modding with the FinalBigEditor and hex editing a couple of times. And I've written batch scripts.

If you really want, whenever you notice the AI get them, you can remove them from the list of unlocked ships by editing the save file.  When uncompressed, it's a text file, so it doesn't require any special tools.

For a named player, find the section that starts with "04".  Note:  There is no space, colon, comma or anything between this 04 and the later numbers.
aka, find "|04".  The numbers after that are the IDs of the ship types.
"|04239" is ship 239, the Lightning Frigate.
"|04239:230" is two ships, 239 - Lightning Frigate, and 230 - Spire Corvette.

Shieldbearer is ID 28, so look for |0428, or |04xx:28:yy:zzz somewhere on the line for the AI player.  Remove that '28', and the AI will be unable to use Shieldbearers.  Unfortunately, I think it goes back on the "potential unlock" list, so in the worst case you may need to do this several times.  It also probably won't get rid of any Shieldbearers that already exist - just prevent new ones from spawning.

If they bother you that much, I never tried this but if you first hack them to remove them the ai will never be able to unlock or build them ever in that game then also editing the save file to remove the shield bearers like Toranth said the AI most likely will never unlock them later. Like I said I have never tried this but it should work I know editing the file will work on ships but as he said I think the AI can always re unlock them later if they are not hacked. Personally I like the shield bearers but when the AI get them that's another story I usually design corrupt them, they only when you use them, cover a small potion of your fleet but the ai can send in more than you could ever build at one time.

[Hearteater]

I wish we had better shield cracking options. Of course, then the AI gets them, so we need a wider range of defenses to protect our Command Stations besides layers of shields.

[Toranth]

If they bother you that much, I never tried this but if you first hack them to remove them the ai will never be able to unlock or build them ever in that game then also editing the save file to remove the shield bearers like Toranth said the AI most likely will never unlock them later. Like I said I have never tried this but it should work I know editing the file will work on ships but as he said I think the AI can always re unlock them later if they are not hacked. Personally I like the shield bearers but when the AI get them that's another story I usually design corrupt them, they only when you use them, cover a small potion of your fleet but the ai can send in more than you could ever build at one time.

Well, if you Backup Corrupt them, there's no need to edit the save file at all.  I was assuming he wanted to play as if the Shieldbearers had never been available from the beginning.  Unfortunately, I haven't figured out where to mark something as 'corrupted' in the save file (yet).

[Fleet Unity]

If they bother you that much, I never tried this but if you first hack them to remove them the ai will never be able to unlock or build them ever in that game then also editing the save file to remove the shield bearers like Toranth said the AI most likely will never unlock them later. Like I said I have never tried this but it should work I know editing the file will work on ships but as he said I think the AI can always re unlock them later if they are not hacked. Personally I like the shield bearers but when the AI get them that's another story I usually design corrupt them, they only when you use them, cover a small potion of your fleet but the ai can send in more than you could ever build at one time.

Well, if you Backup Corrupt them, there's no need to edit the save file at all.  I was assuming he wanted to play as if the Shieldbearers had never been available from the beginning.  Unfortunately, I haven't figured out where to mark something as 'corrupted' in the save file (yet).

True but I have noticed even if you corrupt a design the ID is still in the save file under there ships I do not think that makes a difference as I said I never tried removing a ship before I just noticed it.

[TechSY730]

I wish we had better shield cracking options. Of course, then the AI gets them, so we need a wider range of defenses to protect our Command Stations besides layers of shields.

I think you nailed the head of the issue here.

There is only one kind of damage "redirection" mechanic always assured to be available. (Decoy drones don't count as they are not always available), forcefields. As such, this gives over-emphasis to the roles of forcefield giving units/strucutres and forcefield immune units.

This is no small part about why FF and FF-immune stuff has been a moderate to giant issue and/or challenge in balancing for so long.

Compare this to the kinds of movement restrictions mechanics. Gravity, engine damage, tractor beams, and "blocking forcefields*"; each with their own sets of counters and immunities. This helps prevent any one of them from becoming such a dominating, "make or break" balancing issue.


Maybe it is time to look into alternate ways of damage "redirection", like expanding the exo-forcefield mechanic, adding some base game "decoy drone" like ones (but much less powerful without research, of course), or something, along with appropriate counters and immunities. Then things that are immune to forcefields can be expanded and/or buffed without completely throwing balance out of wack. This would help give a solvution to the issue of shield bearers being iffy in human hands but crazy good in AI hands, forcefield counterplay could be buffed without ruining survivability of stuff, due to other ways of protecting stuff.

*(note, I am counting this as a separate mechanic than the forcefield damage redirections, as not all forcefield sources give forcefield "blocking", and it is possible to have immunity to one but not the other)

[Qatu]

 I though the problem is that overlapping ships with overlapping shields means all ships are protected by all shields. So while moving as a group if there's 500 bombers and 200 shields then the bombers cant be hurt until all 200 shields are beaten.

 It's annoying but it's certainly possible for the player to do the same thing with shield bearers/spire corvettes/spire ships/shield bearers by using group move between multiple wormholes until the fleet overlaps. Combined with mobile repairs or medics this can make for rather OP fleet balls.

[Draco18s]

this can make for rather OP fleet balls.

#DoneThat

[Toranth]

There is only one kind of damage "redirection" mechanic always assured to be available. (Decoy drones don't count as they are not always available), forcefields. As such, this gives over-emphasis to the roles of forcefield giving units/strucutres and forcefield immune units.

Well, there's also Armor. 
Also off the top of my head -
On the "sometimes" front, there are Decoy Drones, Attractors, Neinzul Scapegoats, Regen Golems, Champion Decoys  (Sort-of:  Armor Booster)
On the "Other ways to not die from damage" side, there's repair (Engineers, MSDs, ZMedics) and Regeneration (ZHydras, etc)

For 'Anti-' abilities, we have Armor Piercing.  Decoys, Scapegoats, Repairing, and Regeneration have no counters.

For Forcefields, we have:
Always:        FF Generators, HFFs, Riot Starships
Sometimes:  Shieldbearers, Spirecraft Shieldbearers, Modular Fortresses (1-4 types), Champions/Nemesis, Spire Corvettes, Spire Capital ships (Destroyer up), Hybrids, Spire Shield Guardposts, Protector Starships, Avenger

Anti-FF:  Raid Starships, Infiltrators, Zevastators, EyeBot
Sort-of-Anti-FF:  Plasma Siege Starships, ZSiege, Champion Plasma Cannon modules, Spire Blade Spawner, Cutlass, Vampire, Viral Shredder, MiniRam, Ram, Maw

So, Yeah, there's a lot more Forcefield stuff available or likely to be available.  But at the same time, there's a lot more FF Immune stuff (I know I missed some).  Instead, I think Qatu calls it:

I though the problem is that overlapping ships with overlapping shields means all ships are protected by all shields. So while moving as a group if there's 500 bombers and 200 shields then the bombers cant be hurt until all 200 shields are beaten.

As long as it is so easy to have Forcefields mutually protect each other, while Armor can't help others, the Forcefields will be significantly more powerful.

An interest fix would be to say that no Forcefield generator could move within the bounds of another forcefield.  That'd turn it from stacks to bubble clumps, which would at least be workable.