Sentinel Frigate Spam

[HellishFiend]

You can't really use them for much besides lugging them around with your fleet,

Oh, I disagree. The fact that they have advanced warp sensor clues us in that these were originally intended for defense... and that is indeed what they are best at. They are great for adding some planet-wide DPS to any system, and the onboard warp sensor is a great perk. Carrying a couple of each mark level along with your offensive fleet is a secondary benefit.

But, in any case, they do need a boost without giving the AI any extra added benefit from having hordes of them. So, lower energy cost is probably the most feasible option. Lower energy cost and higher ship caps (so you can have more sentinel coverage across a large empire of planets) would be even better.

[HellishFiend]

but, the base damage output is probably not what it should be.

I would love for them to have higher damage output, but I'm concerned what that would mean for the AI when they have 80 of them at a planet...

[x4000]

but, the base damage output is probably not what it should be.

I would love for them to have higher damage output, but I'm concerned what that would mean for the AI when they have 80 of them at a planet...

Well, the math I quoted would still hold true.  Assume that they have damage output of N.  When you have 65 of them on one planet, their collective output is always N*3.9, no matter what N is.  And with 80, I am guessing that it is more like N*4.5 or something.  That's why I think the basic math is sound on the bonuses, as long as we can get N to be something we are happy with.

[eRe4s3r]

Well if you give them a power boost they only become dangerous in the hands of the ai, which can cheat around the ship cap for them and so is the only one profiting from their "diminishing with cap" damage

Human players can never reach the 2nd part of the equation where more ships would start to do more damage than 2 ships - and 2 ships not even much damage at that ;p

Actually, i think this ship class needs a rethink.. because 600k HP means they are the last thing standing on a planet - but they can't do anything (apart from dieing annoyingly slow). Worse, because of so much HP, if they COULD do anything they'd be like a 3rd defense system (apart from mobile ships and turrets) for the AI, but not for the player, who can never afford to waste so much energy on a adv sensor and a better sniper... in defense their use is 0 since by the time you depend on sentinels to hold it, you might as well scrap the 2 sentinels and build turrets instead.

From a tac standpoint, you could give them scout ability instead of warp sensors, and reduce their fire-rate by 5 and (increase!) damage by 20 or even 30 - THEN it would be a interesting ship. ^^ (Edit: But, the Swarm penalty should then be 5 times as bad, obviously..) otherwise it would be like mobile ion cannons..

[Kjara]

Honestly I find it odd even with only 3 digits of fixed precision that it has such huge issues calculating .6^2 (.36).

It makes sense for the couple of damage points its off though.

[Velox]

     The original implementation actually felt about right for the player, although I didn't have to fight against them in any of my games.  A pair of frigates would deal serious damage to incoming waves and were pretty useful on offense too - being able to warp in, defend a perimeter around the wormhole, and snipe down guard posts/special forces posts was a nice alternative to neutering planets with <insert mobile ship here> (almost always raid starships.)  They were almost a subcompact starship and felt nice and unique, but now are too expensive energy-wise and too weak.  The AI will have counter-sniper turrets up before they can take much of anything out on offense, and their effect on defensive battles is too slight to even be noticed.

     For the player, though, the original concept was that they be powerful enough that the player had to make careful decisions about where to deploy the limited numbers available - again, sort of like the starship decision space, but with higher caps and the interference penalty so that "all in one spot" was out of the question and it was more an issue of coverage.  So, in keeping with that my suggestion would be to return them to something like their original power and lower the caps.  Actually, I think scaling the cap by the size of the galaxy would be the best choice, if that's possible implementation-wise: maybe one frigate per 7/8/9/10 planets at mks I-IV or something similar. 

     I'm not sure how to deal with the issue of how the AI uses them.  Do all ships have to be available for use by the AI?  Maybe this one ought to be humans-only.

[HellishFiend]

     I'm not sure how to deal with the issue of how the AI uses them.  Do all ships have to be available for use by the AI?  Maybe this one ought to be humans-only.

I'm thinking the best option might be to return them to their original power, like you say, and simply make the interference penalty more severe, so that they are not overwhelmingly powerful in the hands of the AI.

[RCIX]

While we're on the subject, how does one deal with massed sentinel frigates? They seem to be poison to my fleet and do also not appear to have a hard counter.

[raptor331]

blow them to bloody pieces with missiles

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Deflector Drones massacre them.

I do think they need more attack power, although it's kind of irritating how a Zenith Descendant AI has at least 10 of these in every system. If I didn't have deflector drones.. :d

EDIT: Addendum:   I had 70 Zenith Viral Shredders multiply themselves to 199 Viral Shredders by attacking sentinel frigates... they have tons of HP and can only retaliate ineffectively.

[RCIX]

Deflector Drones massacre them.

I do think they need more attack power, although it's kind of irritating how a Zenith Descendant AI has at least 10 of these in every system. If I didn't have deflector drones.. :d

EDIT: Addendum:   I had 70 Zenith Viral Shredders multiply themselves to 199 Viral Shredders by attacking sentinel frigates... they have tons of HP and can only retaliate ineffectively.

I once saw over 400 on one planet.

[eRe4s3r]

Yes well.. now you know how i got to 5000 viral shredders ;p