Scorched Earth and Fabricators

[amethyst]

Since I've had the pleasure (ahem) of getting a Scorched Earth AI type as my AI 1, I've noticed something that had escaped me before: all fabricators I encounter are on planets owned by AI 1. The fabs work without supply themselves, but keeping them defended in a system without turrets or force fields proves difficult; essentially, getting a Scorched Earth AI in slot 1 not only renders half the planets useless, but also deprives you of any reasonable shot at keeping fabricators.

Is this intentional, or could a future version perhaps split initial fabricator ownership roughly 50-50 between AI 1 and AI 2? Trying a game without fabricators is interesting for sure, but on top of the difficulties that Scorched Earth adds, it's a bit much for me.

Alternatively, perhaps Scorched Earth could at least be bumped up into being a "red" AI type, as it strikes me as significantly more difficult than most other non-red AI types I've encountered so far.

[Diazo]

On fabricators:

They all spawn on a single AI's worlds? Odd, I could have sworn unique structures were split between the two.

I've never checked for this mind you, but I'm 99% sure I've seen Data Centers on both AI's planets in the same game.


On the Scorched Earth:

As someone who's actually seriously tried playing against a scorched earth, I'm not sure if Scorched Earth deserves being a Red AI.

All the other Red AI types get something extra to murderize you with, while the Scorched Earth only makes capturing planets a harder choice on a strategic level, it does not get anything that makes it harder to fight against in the actual combat.

This is assuming the issue with fabricators only spawning on AI 1's worlds is the RNG hating you and not an actual fact. If all the capturables are on the Scorched Earth's AIs worlds then that is a significantly harder game then one where the capturables are split between the two AI's so you still have access to some of them.

D.

[amethyst]

Data Centers are definitely split between the two; similarly, each of the AIs gets one Advanced Factory, Advanced Starship Constructor and Spire Archive. The fabricators, however, have all been owned by AI 1 - in this game as well as the last two, which didn't involve the Scorched Earth AI. I haven't checked to confirm, but my gut feeling is that a bunch of other special structures work the same way, including Zenith Power Generators and (less important, because you don't need to hold them) Distribution Nodes and Zenith Reserves.

As for red AIs, you may be right - I haven't encountered those yet, so I may be underestimating them. I am leaving the hardest for last, on my quest to beat each AI type at 7+ once.

[Diazo]

Odd. I'll have to start watching for that. (The fabricators issue)

Good luck on working through the AI types though, sounds like a good project.

Actually, I wonder, I'll need to check mine game, I suspect there are some AI types I've never faced before that I should check out to see how they can ruin my day. 

D.

[Toranth]

Data Centers are definitely split between the two; similarly, each of the AIs gets one Advanced Factory, Advanced Starship Constructor and Spire Archive. The fabricators, however, have all been owned by AI 1 - in this game as well as the last two, which didn't involve the Scorched Earth AI. I haven't checked to confirm, but my gut feeling is that a bunch of other special structures work the same way, including Zenith Power Generators and (less important, because you don't need to hold them) Distribution Nodes and Zenith Reserves.

Wow.  You are absolutely correct.

There's 1 Fac IV and 1 ASC for each AI player (per human homeworld, I think).
However, all fabricators (Core, Exp, Starship) are on AI 1 planets.
All ARSs are on AI 1 planets.
All Broken Golems are on AI 1 planets.
All Dark Spire Vengence Generators are on AI 1 planets.
The Dyson Sphere is always an AI 1 planet.
AI Progress Reducers are generally split (Data Centers, Coprocessors, Civilian Leaders), however the SuperTerminal is always AI 1.
ZPGs, Raid Engines, Grav Drills, Planetary Cloakers, Armor Boosters/Inhibitors, Orbital Mass Drivers, and Ion Cannons all seem to be randomly distributed.

Yeah, AI 1 as a Scorched Earth would really be... inconvenient.

[TechSY730]

Data Centers are definitely split between the two; similarly, each of the AIs gets one Advanced Factory, Advanced Starship Constructor and Spire Archive. The fabricators, however, have all been owned by AI 1 - in this game as well as the last two, which didn't involve the Scorched Earth AI. I haven't checked to confirm, but my gut feeling is that a bunch of other special structures work the same way, including Zenith Power Generators and (less important, because you don't need to hold them) Distribution Nodes and Zenith Reserves.

Wow.  You are absolutely correct.

There's 1 Fac IV and 1 ASC for each AI player (per human homeworld, I think).
However, all fabricators (Core, Exp, Starship) are on AI 1 planets.
All ARSs are on AI 1 planets.
All Broken Golems are on AI 1 planets.
All Dark Spire Vengence Generators are on AI 1 planets.
The Dyson Sphere is always an AI 1 planet.
AI Progress Reducers are generally split (Data Centers, Coprocessors, Civilian Leaders), however the SuperTerminal is always AI 1.
ZPGs, Raid Engines, Grav Drills, Planetary Cloakers, Armor Boosters/Inhibitors, Orbital Mass Drivers, and Ion Cannons all seem to be randomly distributed.

Yeah, AI 1 as a Scorched Earth would really be... inconvenient.

Seems like something to bring up for an enhancement request on mantis.

[amethyst]

Seems like something to bring up for an enhancement request on mantis.

Done.

[Bognor]

Has it always been like this?  I'm stunned I've never noticed!

[keith.lamothe]

Huh.  I never noticed either.

[Winge]

Wow...I didn't notice either

[LaughingThesaurus]

Kinda surprised the guy with access to the source code didn't know.

[keith.lamothe]

Kinda surprised the guy with access to the source code didn't know.

There are a lot of things I don't know about this game.

I'm in the map seeding code relatively often, but the overall structure of it is older than my involvement in the game.

[Winge]

Kinda surprised the guy with access to the source code didn't know.

I'm sure there's quite a bit of code to go through to find that 'feature'

I'm more surprised that those of us who have played for 100's of hours haven't noticed it...I think this is the first post I've ever seen mentioning that fact...

Edit:  ninja dev on the loose!

[LaughingThesaurus]

Oh, I at least knew that you weren't on the game for quite a while after it was made, but I didn't really know how much you looked at all the details of the code and such. I have this view of programming where it just doesn't seem feasibly possible without knowing like everything that the code is inside and out. I don't know much about it, and that gives me this viewpoint I guess. I just figured, a game as in depth as AI War, the developer has to be a total expert to not break things.

[keith.lamothe]

I've probably seen all the code by now, but seeing it and knowing what it does are two different things