Science Labs

[Kahuna]

Well that's true but how do people learn key bindings when they buy a new game then? They just smack buttons and see what happens?

No wonder Starcraft has so many players.. got to smack those buttons you know.. to keep APM high.
[/sarcasm]

[keith.lamothe]

Generally people learn the bindings the game specifically tells them about, and if they run into something they want to do but don't know how they might poke around the settings a bit, but they're probably not going to go through the entire index, especially if it's large.

[Cinth]

...why would I want to do that? I rarely actually hit caps lock for something and ctrl is in a nice place.

Shhhh... Linux folks are special snowflakes (I kid, I kid).

Y'all are just jealous y'all had to ride in that huge super-croweded bus while we went to school in the much smaller one with fewer kids.

I don't know if I would brag about having to take the short bus to school.   

Gaming is the only reason I don't run Linux.  Life is just easier as a gamer with windows (for better or worse).

Well that's true but how do people learn key bindings when they buy a new game then? They just smack buttons and see what happens?

It is a valid tactic.  One I still use today.  It's actually something I picked up in the mid 90s because back in the day, documentation wasn't always around.

[Kahuna]

Has it ever been considered to make command centers *all* come with functionality as though they contain a built-in science lab?

This would be useful. But it shouldn't gather Knowledge. It should only be for spending it.

[Kronic]

I brought this up on Mantis recently, but I admit I didn't realise there was a hotkey that could be set for that. Honestly, even if that part of the UI was just changed so that clicking your knowledge score fired that hotkey, it'd be great.

[contingencyplan]

...why would I want to do that? I rarely actually hit caps lock for something and ctrl is in a nice place.

Shhhh... Linux folks are special snowflakes (I kid, I kid).

Y'all are just jealous y'all had to ride in that huge super-croweded bus while we went to school in the much smaller one with fewer kids.

I don't know if I would brag about having to take the short bus to school.   

I think you got the joke and missed it at the same time (judging by the emoticon at least?). It's my typical sarcastic response to the term "special." Actually never rode a bus to school.

Gaming is the only reason I don't run Linux.  Life is just easier as a gamer with windows (for better or worse).

In general I'd agree with you, but for me the non-gaming advantages, especially for programming, outweigh the gaming disadvantages. And it's getting better.

(Though I'll admit I actually installed Windows because I bought a gamepad and joystick and neither of them worked with Steam games under Linux... >_> I've always played AIW under Linux though )

Well that's true but how do people learn key bindings when they buy a new game then? They just smack buttons and see what happens?

It is a valid tactic.  One I still use today.  It's actually something I picked up in the mid 90s because back in the day, documentation wasn't always around.

Agreed; this, and Google nowadays. IMO the keyboard is generally faster than the mouse for commands.

Has it ever been considered to make command centers *all* come with functionality as though they contain a built-in science lab?

This would be useful. But it shouldn't gather Knowledge. It should only be for spending it.

What would be unbalancing about having command centers gather knowledge?

[TechSY730]

EDIT: Also, I bound the "select a science lab somewhere in the galaxy" key to alt+S

You're a fellow moon-OS user, correct? I take this to mean that your Alt key works (in particular Alt + Right-click)? What about the Pause key? Neither works currently on my system, but I expect that's a configuration problem I haven't taken time to track down yet rather than a bug.

Well, for Gnome and alt:

gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.wm.preferences mouse-button-modifier "<Super>"

Or whatever modifier key you wish instead of alt.

This means the Gnome will treat Super (Windows key)+click with this special behavior (or whatever modifier you chose).

Not sure about KDE or Unity, but I guess there are similar settings there.

Also, not sure why your end key (stop command) is not working. It works fine for me.

[Draco18s]

Y'all are just jealous y'all had to ride in that huge super-croweded bus while we went to school in the much smaller one with fewer kids.

I don't know if I would brag about having to take the short bus to school.   

I think you got the joke and missed it at the same time (judging by the emoticon at least?). It's my typical sarcastic response to the term "special." Actually never rode a bus to school.

Got into a long conversation with to older ladies at the monthly board game night last night.  One of them drives the shortbus.
(One of her stories was that someone nabbed her route this year, so she had to pick a new one, when she got it she saw that the district had her driving up to the detention center but wasn't picking anyone up or dropping anyone off.  She inquired about this to a teacher and the teacher said, "Oh last year John had to go there, but he's out now."  "Oh good, I get a kid from juvie.")
Those two had some really interesting stories.  They were both geeky, nerdy, female, and older (I think they were a mother/daughter pair, but I am not sure).  Good times.

[Pumpkin]

Let me go back to the topic (Talking about linux and school bus?! ô.o )

I'm favorable to science lab removing and command station auto gathering knowledge (after some UI improvements). Why? See.

You (some of you) say that science labs allows knowing what a ARS stores before deciding if hacking it would be usefull. IMO this is a trick and being able to see the content of a ARS would be either possible and easy (without need of bringing a science lab) or impossible. This choice (possible+easy / impossible) is another gameplay question.

You say that science lab allows K gathering in neutral planets. I feel like it's not fair, or useless, because you have other interesting (IMO) ways to manage it:
- capture the planet and defend it while the command station auto gather K, and abandon the planet once fully gathered;
- K-hack the target planet before destroying the AI command center if you don't want to capture it after.

You say that multiple science labs can gather knowledge faster at a metal/energy price. I feel like it's unfair and useless. Personally, I never hunger for fast knowledge; some of you may find some situations (10/10?) where available knowledge is needed fast, but I'm not convinced. I regard knowledge gathering time as a fair price (and consistent on the roleplay side).
And why not giving different stations different gathering rates? Examples: military would be 2/s, logistical would be 3/6/9 (Mk I/II/III) and economic would be 5/10/15 (Mk I/II/III).

tl; dr:
I vote for science lab removing:
- stations auto gather K, and gathering rate change with station's kind;
- replace ARS-peering-trick by easy UI or forbide it;
- firbide neutral planet's K gathering (capture it for a while or K-hack it before).

[Aklyon]

I think the labs are fine.

[keith.lamothe]

I think the labs are fine.

(Master Aklyon waves his hand, intoning) "These are not the changes you are looking for."

[Salamander]

I have to agree with Aklyon really. Labs used to also be used for 'research raids' but hackers have that function now.

The UI and some balance issues between units can use some tweaking but the core AI War systems work well so I don't see a need to remove/replace the labs.

[Aklyon]

I think the labs are fine.

(Master Aklyon waves his hand, intoning) "These are not the changes you are looking for."

Hah

Basically, what Salamander explained. Aside from finding the labs (either with leaving one at home, that keybind I'd never heard of in another thread, or the strange string of buttons near CTRLS that seem to know more about my units locations than I do sometimes), and the binary-seeming nature of auto-gather knowledge (its either working nicely or not working at all), the labs don't do anything that really would need adjusting. One lab is cheaper, the other one can hide and gets things done a bit faster.

[NickAragua]

I'm also fine with the labs the way they fundamentally are today.

[corfe83]

Let me correct myself, it is super easy to select science labs from the icon in the bottom left corner, I had forgotten about those. Let's then make this conversation about the first suggestion (I've edited the original post).

But why not have command stations gather science (at least at a slow rate)? Is there ever a strategic reason to build a command station in a system, but NOT send or build a science lab there?

I think the special scenarios for science labs (special ARS stuff, or gathering knowledge on neutral planets) are reasonably fun and makes sense gameplay-wise. For a well-established system I control though, I think it would be preferable if knowledge were gained automatically there, at least at a slow rate, while the command station lives.