Author Topic: Science Labs  (Read 13465 times)

Offline contingencyplan

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Re: Science Labs
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2014, 08:15:38 pm »
There's actually a special keybind (unbound by default) for "find a science lab somewhere and select it", for this purpose, though it's not ideal.

As for command stations: a single unit cannot have both a build menu and a science menu.

But yes, one aspect of the UI I want to overhaul is the whole "all (or at least most) menus have to come from an object" thing.

Beaten by a few minutes, but for reference, it's Controls > In-Game > p.6 > Galaxy-Wide Select Own Science Lab

Mine is currently mapped to LeftControl - T; believe that's the default (just installed under Linux, THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!).

Side note: if you haven't swapped your capslock and control keys, you REALLY should. (Linux / X comes with this ability built-in; figure Mac does too but don't know for certain). Trust me, it's SO MUCH BETTER YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW. :D

Offline Aklyon

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Re: Science Labs
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2014, 08:24:29 pm »
...why would I want to do that? I rarely actually hit caps lock for something and ctrl is in a nice place.

Offline Cinth

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Re: Science Labs
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2014, 08:34:10 pm »
...why would I want to do that? I rarely actually hit caps lock for something and ctrl is in a nice place.

Shhhh... Linux folks are special snowflakes (I kid, I kid).
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Offline Alex Heartnet

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Re: Science Labs
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2014, 08:48:48 pm »
If command stations did all of the harvesting of knowledge then what are ARS's 5+ knowledge collecting rate for?

Multiple MKI science stations can perform the same task.  Unless your economy is really tight the ARSs themselves are basically a trophy.

Furthermore, other have said but it bear repeating, you need a normal or mk 2 science lab to see what ARS unlock before hacking and/or take ARSs' system over.

Wait, I can do what with what?

Offline motai

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Re: Science Labs
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2014, 08:58:50 pm »
if you move any science lab into a system witha  ars it lists an ars tab which shows the available bonus ship types. the leftmost is what you would get by default the other 2 are what you can hack to

Offline Cinth

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Re: Science Labs
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2014, 08:58:58 pm »
Science Labs offer the one and only way to scope out what you can acquire from an ARS.
Science Labs offer the one and only way to gather K from planets uncontrolled planets in supply.
You can park a Science Lab on a planet with an ARS and gain access to the ARS tab to see what the unlock choices are.

Science Labs perform functions that a CC cannot do.
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline Vyndicu

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Re: Science Labs
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2014, 09:05:49 pm »
Multiple MKI science stations can perform the same task.  Unless your economy is really tight the ARSs themselves are basically a trophy.


Wait, I can do what with what?

ARS can do everything a mark 1 can do and you don't have to spent a single metal to build it. I think they only cost some amount of energy after capturing it.

ARS cost only 100 energy and yield 6 knowledge per second. Mark 1 cost 2000 energy and 8800 metal to collect 1 knowledge per second. Mark 2 cost 5000 energy and 26,400 metal for 3 knowledge per second plus cloaking.

Your science lab can "preview" what capturing and/or hacking an ARS science will give you via it's ARS tab when they are on the same hostile planet.

Offline TechSY730

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Re: Science Labs
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2014, 09:14:54 pm »
Why not both? For example, command stations (and the allied foldouts thereof) could have a small knowledge gather rate (like <= Mk. I gather rate), but still have science labs for research and more "advanced uses" (like gathering on neutral planets, ARS "peeking", increasing knowledge gain rate, etc).

EDIT: Also, I bound the "select a science lab somewhere in the galaxy" key to alt+S
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 09:16:49 pm by TechSY730 »

Offline Vyndicu

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Re: Science Labs
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2014, 09:23:57 pm »
Why not both? For example, command stations (and the allied foldouts thereof) could have a small knowledge gather rate (like <= Mk. I gather rate), but still have science labs for research and more "advanced uses" (like gathering on neutral planets, ARS "peeking", increasing knowledge gain rate, etc).

Foldout and command stations can't gather knowledge from neutral system or finding out what ARS will unlock and few other uses that are only possible by being mobile.

Foldout will show up only one place that is most likely already depleted by the time you get to them.

Offline TechSY730

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Re: Science Labs
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2014, 09:51:57 pm »
Why not both? For example, command stations (and the allied foldouts thereof) could have a small knowledge gather rate (like <= Mk. I gather rate), but still have science labs for research and more "advanced uses" (like gathering on neutral planets, ARS "peeking", increasing knowledge gain rate, etc).

Foldout and command stations can't gather knowledge from neutral system or finding out what ARS will unlock and few other uses that are only possible by being mobile.

Foldout will show up only one place that is most likely already depleted by the time you get to them.

Yes, and that is why science labs (the mobile ones) would still be buildable and function as they do today. This would be a change to command centers (and their foldouts) only.

Also, each player must gather their knowledge independently.

Offline corfe83

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Re: Science Labs
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2014, 10:30:18 pm »
Multiple MKI science stations can perform the same task.  Unless your economy is really tight the ARSs themselves are basically a trophy.


Wait, I can do what with what?

ARS can do everything a mark 1 can do and you don't have to spent a single metal to build it. I think they only cost some amount of energy after capturing it.

ARS cost only 100 energy and yield 6 knowledge per second. Mark 1 cost 2000 energy and 8800 metal to collect 1 knowledge per second. Mark 2 cost 5000 energy and 26,400 metal for 3 knowledge per second plus cloaking.

Your science lab can "preview" what capturing and/or hacking an ARS science will give you via it's ARS tab when they are on the same hostile planet.

I didn't know that, that's really cool.

Why not both? For example, command stations (and the allied foldouts thereof) could have a small knowledge gather rate (like <= Mk. I gather rate), but still have science labs for research and more "advanced uses" (like gathering on neutral planets, ARS "peeking", increasing knowledge gain rate, etc).

Foldout and command stations can't gather knowledge from neutral system or finding out what ARS will unlock and few other uses that are only possible by being mobile.

Foldout will show up only one place that is most likely already depleted by the time you get to them.

Yes, and that is why science labs (the mobile ones) would still be buildable and function as they do today. This would be a change to command centers (and their foldouts) only.

Also, each player must gather their knowledge independently.

Yeah, exactly.

Offline contingencyplan

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Re: Science Labs
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2014, 01:51:51 am »
...why would I want to do that? I rarely actually hit caps lock for something and ctrl is in a nice place.

Shhhh... Linux folks are special snowflakes (I kid, I kid).

Y'all are just jealous y'all had to ride in that huge super-croweded bus while we went to school in the much smaller one with fewer kids. :P

Seriously, though, that's the point --- how often do you use each key and which is easier to reach from home row. Give it a shot! :)


Actually on-topic now.

Can hackers (which is what you'd need to make use of the "ARS choices" information) also see the choices, or just research stations? I'd check, but I haven't found an ARS in my current game yet.

Beyond that, is the "strategic benefit vs. hassle" ratio good for the extra information? Put another way, would it be game-breaking for the ARS to display its choices without another science station present, especially since all the other hacking options give their information up-front? (Or is it more an artifact of the interface, where seeing the information requires a ship under the player's control?)

[As a related question, could we put "give more than just the name of the ship in capturable / hackable buildings" on the UX improvement list? Having just started back up, trying to remember the general description and stats of each ship without F1-ing through the whole list is a bit more than a bit annoying.]


For having stations gather science, I'm leaning in favor of the idea since it simplifies things, especially for those who like to planet-hop rather than build a contiguous empire (I'm in the latter category). I think having it be on the level of a standard / MkI research station is a good balance --- it saves you the extra micro of creating a research station on the planet (or getting one there) if you aren't in dire need of more science yet, and you can still go to the effort if you are. It lets the player prioritize attention, even if small, on what he cares about at the moment.

That said, I don't think the current situation is an outright flaw or unbalanced or something --- it's a "nice to have" but not essential.

EDIT: Also, I bound the "select a science lab somewhere in the galaxy" key to alt+S

You're a fellow moon-OS user, correct? I take this to mean that your Alt key works (in particular Alt + Right-click)? What about the Pause key? Neither works currently on my system, but I expect that's a configuration problem I haven't taken time to track down yet rather than a bug.

Offline Aklyon

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Re: Science Labs
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2014, 08:05:15 am »
...why would I want to do that? I rarely actually hit caps lock for something and ctrl is in a nice place.

Shhhh... Linux folks are special snowflakes (I kid, I kid).

Y'all are just jealous y'all had to ride in that huge super-croweded bus while we went to school in the much smaller one with fewer kids. :P

Seriously, though, that's the point --- how often do you use each key and which is easier to reach from home row. Give it a shot! :)
Ah, its a home-row thing. I haven't actually done 'proper' keyboarding in ages, so i hadn't tried aligning things to that since years ago. ;)

Offline Kahuna

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Re: Science Labs
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2014, 10:25:44 am »
Arf. 3 things people never seem to do: check options, key binds, read descriptions.

You don't need to hunt for the planet with the Science Lab since you can just press CTRL+S on any planet to select a Science Lab.

Also you can just build 1 Mark II Science Lab which you will keep on one of your planets behind a Command Station and outside of Force Fields so Plasma Sieges don't destroy it.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Science Labs
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2014, 10:28:12 am »
Arf. 3 things people never seem to do: check options, key binds, read descriptions.
To be fair, it'd be nice if one didn't have to read through dozens and dozens of keybinds and options to figure out easier ways of doing things.
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