Author Topic: AI War Beta 5.013, "Resurgent Underdogs," Released!  (Read 3419 times)

Offline Commiesalami

  • Full Member Mark II
  • ***
  • Posts: 167
Re: AI War Beta 5.013, "Resurgent Underdogs," Released!
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2011, 11:20:45 pm »
The tinkering around the armoured warhead just goes to highlight how much better matyrs are than warheads :)

As for AI ships that make the game far more difficult, we've had far more difficulty with spire maws than battleships in recent games.

Spire Maws are easily focused by bombers or siege starships, and once you kill them you get all of your ships back (with a little less health ...).  If you come prepared they aren't a problem.

Offline Lancefighter

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,440
Re: AI War Beta 5.013, "Resurgent Underdogs," Released!
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2011, 04:18:21 am »
An amazing patch, particularly the part where you reduced the cost of some of my favorite toys (riot stars, scout stars, grav turrets, regular scouts, cloaker stars, and enclave stars..), and an extra shoutout to the bit where stealth battleships no longer instantly kill siege starships!
However, one issue maintains, is that there is absolutely no way you can actually produce a fleet of these starships before you wouldve had the knowledge to unlock them.. and since you are instead probably going to spend your knowledge elsewhere, you are generally going to spend your resources on those elsewhere things. I dont suppose you would ever consider reverting the doubling of their resource costs?

I am however a tad worried about zenith manips; they are currently generally outclassed by logistics stations, and their increased energy cost doesnt help - they now cost 30m/c each to run..

Additionally - What role are armored warheads supposed to play?
once upon a time they served as scouts, because they were impossible to kill, but since they became blind its kinda pointless to do that. I havent seen a reason to build them in a great long time; If you want masses of things dead, typically a lightning warhead does it easier.. and well, they are generally outclassed by martyrs or penetrators for killing single targets. I'm just not sure what use they have. With the aip cost, it means you are already wanting to not use them anyway, so increasing their m/c costs ... I'm just confused as to when id ever want to use them (similarly as i am for nukes)
Ideas? Suggestions? Concerns? Bugs to be squashed? Report them on the Mantis Bugtracker!

Author of the Dyson Project and the Spire Gambit

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: AI War Beta 5.013, "Resurgent Underdogs," Released!
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2011, 09:16:13 am »
Glad you like it. :)  I figured that making some of those things less prohibitively expensive would be popular, and at this stage would actually enhance balance rather than destroying it.

In terms of the starship costs... you're right, those were out of line a bit.  And too varied by type of starship, in the main.  I've normalized them more in the next version to work out to more like 80k combined of metal and crystal for them.  The fleet starships are actually more like 64k, and the leeches are still higher than 80k, but in general stuff is clustered closer to the 80k total mark rather than the 120k total mark.  I still think they were too cheap in the past, but I think you're also right that they've been too expensive more recently.

Also good point on the spacetime manipulators; I went ahead and reduced their cost to keep them useful.

In terms of armored warheads, those are sort of a "the first man to use these is the first man to run out of ideas" sort of situation, like the nukes.  There are plenty of players that use a nuke or two per game, and that is just fine as far as I'm concerned; for the really advanced players that think they aren't to be used, that's also fine.  Nukes are in a good place right now, and aren't meant to be used as part of every playstyle.  I would say the same is true of the armored warheads, honestly: I don't think they are really targeted at folks like you.

The purpose of the armored warheads, as I see it, is to get to places that the lightning warheads can't for whatever reason, BUT that you still need to deliver massive firepower to.  It's sort of a simpler alternative to a nuke (and cheaper) if there's just one keystone in an AI planet's defenses that you want to destroy without nuking the place.  And, of course, these can hit mark V ships unlike a nuke, which is also good.  Since lightning warheads are so fragile, these provide a counterpoint that are more costly in every since but which don't have that weakness.  These have a particularly relevant purpose for anyone playing without the expansions (or without the relevant minor factions even if they do have the expansions), since they wouldn't have access to things like golems, spirecraft, etc, to accomplish the same sort of job without AIP.

In short, I see the armored warheads as still filling a somewhat obscure niche, but they're now actually useful again and are a tool that can pull players out of a bind.  Particularly handy for the inexperienced players, which -- like the advanced warp sensor -- seems to me a valid niche to fill.  If players eventually get skilled enough that they don't need crutches like that, then great.  But having some transitional ships that players use while still learning the ropes more seems like a valid thing to do.  Nukes sort of fall into that category as well, although I and a number of other advanced players definitely do use those on occasion, too.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!