Riot Control Starships

[MaxAstro]

From what I have seen of them in game so far, I am absolutely loving them.  They fit perfectly into my Frigate fleets, and I love the module system.  However, I feel like there isn't quite enough module diversity.  Rather than changing modules to fit each situation, I find myself picking the "best" mix of modules for my general strategy and sticking with it.

To that end (and to the end of having random possibly pointless fun), I have brainstormed some ideas for possible new modules, and invite anyone who feels creative to join me.  If nothing else, it would be cool if each higher mark of Riot Starship had new modules available, and for that we need plenty of options. 

EMP Torpedo (central slot): Fires a torpedo that disables all ships in a small blast radius for a short time.  Very long range, but fairly slow fire rate.  Enemy ships stay paralyzed for less time than it takes to reload, so you can't fully lockdown a group of ships.  Torpedo does no actual lasting damage.

ECM Array (central slot): An alternative to the personal force field, the ECM Array combines several common forms of special weapon defense, protecting the Riot Control Starship and any ships very close to it from sniper shots, missiles, and dark matter.  Although this provides very broad-spectrum defense, the range is too small to effectively cover more than a few other ships.

Tractor Emitter (peripheral slot): A medium range tractor beam able to grab and hold up to four ships at a time, keeping them in one place for the Riot Starship or its allies to pummel.  Although this can technically be used to drag enemy ships like an Etherjet, the Riot Starship's slow speed prevents this from being a generally useful tactic.

Electron Repeater (peripheral slot): Designed to punish ships that stray too close to the Riot Starship, the Electron Repeater has very short range and uses the oft-ineffective Minor Electric Ammo, but has a comparatively high simultaneous fire rate and damage to other peripheral weapons.

Remote Sabotage Gun (peripheral slot): Deals almost no damage (10 points at most) with a slow rate of fire, but makes up for it by having sniper range and dealing moderate engine damage, similar to a spider turret.  Has no simultaneous fire, but can allow the Riot Control Starship to disable choice enemies from extreme range.

[vince0018]

  I agree with those ideas, though being able to install a sniper-like turret may reduce the need to create beachheads when invading which I believe usually snipers are built in to snipe the enemy. However I myself have never created a beachhead so I'm not entirely sure.
  Also I think the number of modules you can add should be reduced, and the current ones re-balanced for better definition between strengths and weaknesses. Being able to put 2 of each weapon (or 4 of a single one) plus two secondary (shotgun, shield, lightning) seems a little overdone. Also keep in mind I've never done extensive testing with the riot ship so I'm not completely sure about that. I've just started using it since the last two mini-beta hotfix/patches where the riot ship was balanced a little better. (EDIT:3.033-3.034)

[vonduus]

random possibly pointless fun

What a great concept. It kind of explains what I have been doing all these years .

it would be cool if each higher mark of Riot Starship had new modules available, and for that we need plenty of options.

I fully support this.

The whole EMP technology seems very appropriate to use in riot control, paralyzing people without hurting them. Also the mobile Tractor Emitter seems very police-like ("You are all under arrest"). The Electron Repeater is already there, I believe, in the form of the Tazer. The Remote Sabotage Gun might be a bit underpowered, I feel that one sniper turret is not really effective against anything, you got to have ten or more of them.  I have some ideas on ECM and ECCM that does not fit so well with your ideas on the ECM Array. In other words, I am biased, so I will refrain from commenting on this. (My ECM ideas: http://arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,2584.msg25526.html#msg25526)

Being able to put 2 of each weapon (or 4 of a single one) plus two secondary (shotgun, shield, lightning) seems a little overdone.

Perhaps the overdoing will be reduced if the modules were competing more for the hard-points. I mean, now I just buy four lasers and two shotguns for maximum efficiency, they fit on different hardpoints, no problem. If lasers and shotguns shared the outer hotpoints, I would have to figure out which of them I really wanted, because I couldn't get a full complement of both.

edit: Another solution would be to make the cap of the modules lower than the number of hardpoints. 

[MaxAstro]

The Electron Repeater is already there, I believe, in the form of the Tazer.

I'm thinking more Teleport Battle Station and less Lightning Turret.    Able to hit a lot of targets in range, but not every single target.

The Remote Sabotage Gun might be a bit underpowered, I feel that one sniper turret is not really effective against anything, you got to have ten or more of them.

Well, if you were going to specialize you could have four.  Also, these are spider turrets, which are a world better than sniper turrets. 

[vonduus]

Well, if you were going to specialize you could have four. 

With possibly 15 riot ships in my fleet, this would amount to 60 mobile spider turrets. Which seems a bit overpowered.

There is a delicate balance here. If you water down the individual modules to prevent specialization exploits, non-specializers end up with a range of lousy weapons. And if you provide decent weapons for the non-specializers, evil exploiters like me will instantly produce a full ship cap of superships.

So the more I think of it, the more I am getting fond of setting the modular cap lower than the number of hardpoints. This will force me into utilizing more weapon types, creating more balanced ships, as it in a very simple way prevents me from creating super-specialized ships.

edit: Which again means that there should be more modules to choose from.

 
 

[keith.lamothe]

Module ideas are quite welcome, I have planned all along on a greater variety for higher mk versions of the ship.  Also, some modules may not fit with the Riot's basic set of roles but may fit with other starships

[vonduus]

How about a very short range Medikit module, providing repair for the nearest 2-5 ships? By mounting an engineer on the inner hardpoints, max two engineers per ship.

Repair numbers depend on grand total of riot ships.
If the grand total is 15 (5+5+5), each medikit should be able to repair 2 ships, for a max total repair capacity of 60 (roughly equivalent to 1 MRS, I believe).
If this total is 9 (4+3+2), the medikit should repair 3 ships, if only 6 (3+2+1) it should repair 5.

[Dmdunn]

How about saving these ideas for other module ships? 

[MaxAstro]

So the more I think of it, the more I am getting fond of setting the modular cap lower than the number of hardpoints. This will force me into utilizing more weapon types, creating more balanced ships, as it in a very simple way prevents me from creating super-specialized ships.

I think this is an excellent idea.  Limiting central modules to one-per - so you have to have two different central modules - and peripheral modules to two per (assuming a wider variety of peripheral modules are added) sounds like a great way to encourage diversity in module choices.

[keith.lamothe]

With per-type ship caps on everything else I'd really rather allow min-maxing on ship modules, but balance them so that there's always some (preferably common) situation in which each module is useful.

Currently the shotgun is the best overall central module, but that won't always be the case.  By the way, the tazer may seem less useful but properly used a couple riots in dual-tazer could probably immobilize an arbitrarily large wave of smaller ships due to the aoe-engine-damage thing.  That will probably have to be nerfed too.

The forcefield currently has big issues with being pretty useless in a lot of cases, of course.

[Doddler]

Is it possible to have specific modules that you have to research separately to use on your ships?

[HellishFiend]

With possibly 15 riot ships in my fleet, this would amount to 60 mobile spider turrets. Which seems a bit overpowered.

There is a delicate balance here. If you water down the individual modules to prevent specialization exploits, non-specializers end up with a range of lousy weapons. And if you provide decent weapons for the non-specializers, evil exploiters like me will instantly produce a full ship cap of superships.

So the more I think of it, the more I am getting fond of setting the modular cap lower than the number of hardpoints. This will force me into utilizing more weapon types, creating more balanced ships, as it in a very simple way prevents me from creating super-specialized ships.

edit: Which again means that there should be more modules to choose from.

 

I disagree with most of this post. These things cost knowledge, and I think that the eventual 5-10k total knowledge you will have to spend for mks I-III will justify the sheer stopping power they will provide. Something may always seem overpowered on the surface, but if you look at it paired with the opportunity cost of obtaining that power, it becomes justified.

I'm not saying they dont still need to be fine tuned, but I just disagree that having the stopping power of 60 spider turrets is just overpowered in principle. All it needs is the correct amount of opportunity cost (knowledge).

[keith.lamothe]

Is it possible to have specific modules that you have to research separately to use on your ships?

Yes, modules are just ships treated differently in specific parts of the code, so they can have tech prereqs like any other ship.  It is my intention to make the laser and tazer notably more useful than the machine gun and shotgun in particular circumstances (laser to give more long range power, tazer to give short-range ultra-crowd-control) and give them a 250 knowledge prereq or something.  Maybe put the forcefield behind that too if I can get it to not be so awful stats wise.

[MaxAstro]

Is it possible for one tech to unlock multiple things?  It just occurred to me that you could link module availability to the research of other things - for example require Mark II Forcefields be researched to unlock the forcefield module, or Laser turrets be researched to unlock the laser module.  That would achieve the end of needing to research modules, but without adding a new thing to spend valuable knowledge points on; 250-500 knowledge just to improve one very expensive ship with modules that might not be useful all the time can be hard to justify.

[I-KP]

How about saving these ideas for other module ships?