Author Topic: Review of AI War.  (Read 6794 times)

Offline x4000

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Review of AI War.
« on: November 29, 2010, 04:52:24 pm »
...On SavyGamer: http://savygamer.co.uk/2010/11/29/ai-war-fleet-command-pc-review/

Suffice it to say, the reviewer wasn't too enthused.  I wrote a pretty lengthy response clarifying a few things, but for those interested in adding any comments to mine, feel free.  Not to try and invalidate what the reviewer said, but he seemed genuinely perplexed by a few things, and nothing I say is going to really explain it as well as a fan of the game could.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 05:16:15 pm by x4000 »
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Offline Ozymandiaz

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Re: Review of AI War.
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2010, 05:09:34 pm »
Seems like the reviewer has a very low attention span ^^
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Offline Wingflier

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Re: Review of AI War.
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2010, 05:17:13 pm »
Honestly Chris, I think this guy is just a lost cause.

Let's be honest, AI War isn't for everybody.  AI War is for the kinds of people who value strategy, deep thought, and critical thinking.  You can't make everybody enjoy this type of game any more than you can make me enjoy killing people with guns over and over for hours and call that "fun".

Quote
Have my game-playing abilities in fact regressed despite the 20-30 hours I spend each week playing the damned things?

Maybe. You probably don’t care: it’s more my problem than yours. I guess the point here is that if you too have played a lot of “press X now to be awesome!!!” games, you might struggle with AI War.
I think the reviewer pretty much sums up the article with this paragraph.

The popular simple, "instant-gratification" type gameplay that most players have been accustomed to today actually represents a larger problem with society, where critical and free-thinking is no longer valued as much as material wealth and "social standing".  You simply can not fight the trend of our society, even if your game is the deepest and most wonderful experience that any person should be able to have.

I could write a response to this guy, but all I would basically be saying is, "You can't enjoy AI War because quite frankly, you're a simpleton", and I don't think that will help much of anybody.

edit:  On a related note, the tutorial is NOT that hard.  I have actually introduced the game to 3 different people now, 2 of which who quit playing the game before the tutorial even ended, and 3rd who at the end was basically like, "Is that all?"  Not surprisingly, the 2 people who found the tutorial "too difficult to complete", are the kind of people that you would find playing World of Warcraft or some other no-brainer type of game.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 05:22:28 pm by Wingflier »
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Offline Ozymandiaz

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Re: Review of AI War.
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2010, 05:26:39 pm »
Honestly Chris, I think this guy is just a lost cause.

Let's be honest, AI War isn't for everybody.  AI War is for the kinds of people who value strategy, deep thought, and critical thinking.  You can't make everybody enjoy this type of game any more than you can make me enjoy killing people with guns over and over for hours and call that "fun".

Quote
Have my game-playing abilities in fact regressed despite the 20-30 hours I spend each week playing the damned things?

Maybe. You probably don’t care: it’s more my problem than yours. I guess the point here is that if you too have played a lot of “press X now to be awesome!!!” games, you might struggle with AI War.
I think the reviewer pretty much sums up the article with this paragraph.

The popular simple, "instant-gratification" type gameplay that most players have been accustomed to today actually represents a larger problem with society, where critical and free-thinking is no longer valued as much as material wealth and "social standing".  You simply can not fight the trend of our society, even if your game is the deepest and most wonderful experience that any person should be able to have.

I could write a response to this guy, but all I would basically be saying is, "You can't enjoy AI War because quite frankly, you're a simpleton", and I don't think that will help much of anybody.

edit:  On a related note, the tutorial is NOT that hard.  I have actually introduced the game to 3 different people now, 2 of which who quit playing the game before the tutorial even ended, and 3rd who at the end was basically like, "Is that all?"  Not surprisingly, the 2 people who found the tutorial "too difficult to complete", are the kind of people that you would find playing World of Warcraft or some other no-brainer type of game.

I am tempted to go off on a long rant, but I do not have the time, suffice it to say that I agree :). Current society leaves much to be desired.

All in all AI War rocks, but some people are just to hung up in instant gratification and forgo the good feeling of achievement after a well thought out and good strategy.
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Offline Vinraith

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Re: Review of AI War.
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2010, 05:28:55 pm »
In short, there's a reason most "strategy" games, especially real time ones, aren't very strategic. It takes a certain kind of person to actually want a truly strategic game, and the reviewer rather plainly isn't one of those.

Offline x4000

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Re: Review of AI War.
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2010, 05:32:11 pm »
In short, there's a reason most "strategy" games, especially real time ones, aren't very strategic. It takes a certain kind of person to actually want a truly strategic game, and the reviewer rather plainly isn't one of those.

That's pretty much my feeling, and a big part of what I was trying to express in my comments back on that post.  My main reasons for wanting the comments there were not to convince him of anything, but to avoid turning off any strategy-minded readers who read his review (which will happen).
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Offline Wingflier

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Re: Review of AI War.
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2010, 05:34:26 pm »
In short, there's a reason most "strategy" games, especially real time ones, aren't very strategic. It takes a certain kind of person to actually want a truly strategic game, and the reviewer rather plainly isn't one of those.

That's pretty much my feeling, and a big part of what I was trying to express in my comments back on that post.  My main reasons for wanting the comments there were not to convince him of anything, but to avoid turning off any strategy-minded readers who read his review (which will happen).
Ah in that case, I'll definitely write a detailed response about why I enjoy the game.  I'll try to be as non-controversial as possible lol.
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Offline x4000

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Re: Review of AI War.
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2010, 05:52:44 pm »
Well, it doesn't have to be super-detailed, but it's more convincing if folks do hear from more than just me. :)

Thanks, as always, for all that you're doing!
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Offline Vinraith

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Re: Review of AI War.
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2010, 05:55:15 pm »
In short, there's a reason most "strategy" games, especially real time ones, aren't very strategic. It takes a certain kind of person to actually want a truly strategic game, and the reviewer rather plainly isn't one of those.

That's pretty much my feeling, and a big part of what I was trying to express in my comments back on that post.  My main reasons for wanting the comments there were not to convince him of anything, but to avoid turning off any strategy-minded readers who read his review (which will happen).

Done and done.

Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: Review of AI War.
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2010, 05:56:24 pm »
Can anyone actually name a main stream strategy game that doesn't require spamming and quick button presses and that's good?  

If you can, congrats, I have yet to find it.  Ai War has me spoiled on the genre permanently I'm afraid.  I enjoyed the Starcraft 2 game, (or at least, I enjoyed the solo campaign) but I haven't played it in months since I got it.  I could claim lack of time, but really, if it was lack of time, I certainly wouldn't be playing Ai War.  That's a time sucker of epic proportions.  ;)

This guy....well, he's obviously not the type that can get behind AIW.  Oh well.

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Offline Spikey00

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Re: Review of AI War.
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2010, 05:56:45 pm »
I read the first few sentences and I lost interest.

Typical gamer these days.  
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Offline dumpsterKEEPER

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Re: Review of AI War.
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2010, 05:57:35 pm »
Frankly, I was a bit confused as to how that could be deemed a review of the game. He fixated on the complexity of the game to the point of apparently forgetting to include a review. I fully respect that not everyone is going to like a particular game and I think he was openly honest about not getting into the game, but when your review essentially consists of "I don't get it," I think it's time to pass that game off to someone else.

That said, I think that many people who are really into strategic games are not only undaunted by complexity, but consider that an attractive feature. I could see reviews like this one potentially helping to promote the game within that niche of players who enjoy deeply strategic games as there aren't that many (that I'm aware of) to choose from.

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Review of AI War.
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2010, 06:05:33 pm »
Can anyone actually name a main stream strategy game that doesn't require spamming and quick button presses and that's good?  

If you can, congrats, I have yet to find it.  Ai War has me spoiled on the genre permanently I'm afraid.  I enjoyed the Starcraft 2 game, (or at least, I enjoyed the solo campaign) but I haven't played it in months since I got it.  I could claim lack of time, but really, if it was lack of time, I certainly wouldn't be playing Ai War.  That's a time sucker of epic proportions.  ;)

This guy....well, he's obviously not the type that can get behind AIW.  Oh well.

King
Supreme Commander 2 is actually pretty good about being somewhat strategic (I say somewhat, because compared to a game like AI War, you may be a little underwhelmed.  It is a fast-paced RTS after all) and requiring only a modest amount of micromanagement.  I would definitely recommend it if you like AI War, it only costs $15 nowadays (it was actually on sale for $3.75 yesterday on Steam lol).
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Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: Review of AI War.
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2010, 06:11:56 pm »
Can anyone actually name a main stream strategy game that doesn't require spamming and quick button presses and that's good?  

If you can, congrats, I have yet to find it.  Ai War has me spoiled on the genre permanently I'm afraid.  I enjoyed the Starcraft 2 game, (or at least, I enjoyed the solo campaign) but I haven't played it in months since I got it.  I could claim lack of time, but really, if it was lack of time, I certainly wouldn't be playing Ai War.  That's a time sucker of epic proportions.  ;)

This guy....well, he's obviously not the type that can get behind AIW.  Oh well.

King
Supreme Commander 2 is actually pretty good about being somewhat strategic (I say somewhat, because compared to a game like AI War, you may be a little underwhelmed.  It is a fast-paced RTS after all) and requiring only a modest amount of micromanagement.  I would definitely recommend it if you like AI War, it only costs $15 nowadays (it was actually on sale for $3.75 yesterday on Steam lol).

Yeah, I actually have a copy of SC1.  Its a solid game, but it lacks that little something.  I heard SC2 was bad in comparison.  Granted, that's what I heard.  I have yet to try it.

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Offline HitmanN

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Re: Review of AI War.
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2010, 06:16:45 pm »
(ouch, ton of new posts while I was typing this.)

Can't call that a review really, considering the lack of time spent on playing the game. It's simply a person saying they didn't fancy spending time on looking deeper into it. But that in itself is a statement, and a statistic, and it's always worth something in the long run.

That's actually what could've happened to me too. It took me near 10 hours before I felt I actually liked playing the game. Until then it was a battle between "This might not be worth investing more time into" and "it may be fun if I give it some more time". I'm glad I picked the latter approach, but it could've really gone either way depending on what kind of day I was having, how much time I had to spend on the very first session(s), etc. Plus I'm sure I wouldn't have found it nearly as tempting to learn the game without having read some of Chris's articles on the AI, and some reviews and statements. Some people don't have the time or attention span to read that much though. Those people want to discover those things by actually playing the game. And if they don't know the game could be much more awesome if played longer, then the complexity may prevent them from reaching that point. These are not 'lost causes', they're just people that need a little more help to get past the first steps, after which they could be just as enthusiastic fans as anyone here. ;)

So I think the person has a point about the accessibility. It does not break the game for those who can find the time and interest to explore deeper, but it just may prevent some potential fans actually finding a way into the game, because of its initial complexity. Yes, there are options to play an easier or more limited game, but that's the first step of confusing players about how they should play the game. It can be a blessing to some, but many will find that just too overwhelming to even try properly.

I'm not sure if much can be done with these things though, but they're valid concerns, I think. If they can be addressed without affecting the gameplay significantly for those who like the game as it is... then those changes may very well be worth pursuing at some point.

In regards to the 'review', it seems like the 'reviewer' was playing with too easy AI's, and based their feelings on that. The first game I played was difficult enough that my concern wasn't that the game could be boring (only repetitive at most). It was that it could be too hard, right from the start of the game. I had my hands full with keeping just basic waves under control. 'Hard game' is a better first impression than 'Boring game', I think, because then the player knows they can drop the difficulty and retry. If they started out with a boring game, they might not even bother trying a higher difficulty, because they already 'succeeded' in a campaign, which turned out a 'boring' experience. So, what I guess I'm trying to say is, it may be better to encourage new players to try harder AI's initially, to prevent them from playing a 'boring' game as their first game. Just make them get their butts kicked and tell them to try an easier AI after that. It's more motivational than outright implying they should try difficulty 1 or 2 in their first game if they're inexperienced or somesuch, I think. Besides, higher difficulties are where the AI shines, and that's what AI War is often marketed with. Let the player REALLY experience it and be challenged by it. :)

Then again, getting your ass kicked may be an overwhelming experience, so it kinda contradicts with the need to make things more accessible. Problematic. :P

Anyways, these are not concerns for me. I'm happy with what I have. ;)
« Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 06:20:28 pm by HitmanN »