Rebuilding Rebuilders

[corfe83]

I am a huge fan of the CTRL settings "maintain at least X rebuilders on each planet" and "auto-FRD rebuilders", and the fact that command centers leave remains to be rebuilt. Super helpful to let me focus on more interesting things. However, if you lose a planet's command center, it's quite likely that any rebuilders you had on the planet died along with it, meaning you're going to have to move some rebuilders in from elsewhere to rebuild each planet (this can be tedious when you lose a whole bunch of planets). Because of the delay in allowing you to rebuild command centers, I often have to check any destroyed planets carefully to see if all rebuilders died out, and if so move at least one there from a healthy planet.

I wish there were a good solution to allow planets to always rebuild automatically, without manual intervention after each raid.

Is it possible to make the "maintain at least X rebuilders/engineers" rebuild them from healthy planets intended for planets that can't build at the moment, if the player has ever owned a command station at that planet (the rebuilders should be created with move orders for that planet)?

Or, can we make rebuilders practically invincible on player owned and neutral planets (but vulnerable whenever they are on an AI-controlled planet, I think that's important to prevent OP beachhead tactics)?

Or does anyone have a better idea for how to solve this?

[keith.lamothe]

Actually there are rules in place to specifically make it likely the AI will kill rebuilders after the command station goes down, to avoid making it _too_ easy to have satellite planets as buffers against attacks.

We could swing the pendulum the other way and make the rebuilders less likely to die, as I do see where that's more convenient.  And the AI has semi-recently been made better about sending forces further into human territory rather than letting arbitrarily large forces get stuck on some minor remnants.  So maybe that will work ok.

[corfe83]

Actually there are rules in place to specifically make it likely the AI will kill rebuilders after the command station goes down, to avoid making it _too_ easy to have satellite planets as buffers against attacks.

We could swing the pendulum the other way and make the rebuilders less likely to die, as I do see where that's more convenient.  And the AI has semi-recently been made better about sending forces further into human territory rather than letting arbitrarily large forces get stuck on some minor remnants.  So maybe that will work ok.

So THAT'S why my rebuilders keep dieing. I assumed they were being too bold about rebuilding recently destroyed turrets

To me the game would ideally not require any user intervention to rebuild dead colonies. I'm OK with time delays, metal penalties, etc., I just hate taking any manual action to get them to rebuild. I assume that's mostly the intent of the change to make command stations leave remains, and this is just taking this the rest of the way to a 100% guarantee, every colony can rebuild itself given time and metal.

[Toranth]

Personally, I think the situation would be vastly improved if the cap on Rebuilders either increased dramatically, or just plain went away.

[keith.lamothe]

Personally, I think the situation would be vastly improved if the cap on Rebuilders either increased dramatically, or just plain went away.

Going away would lead to problems (I know some of you would drop 1000+ on chokepoints) but perhaps a per-planet cap of 10 or 20.

[Vyndicu]

Personally, I think the situation would be vastly improved if the cap on Rebuilders either increased dramatically, or just plain went away.

Going away would lead to problems (I know some of you would drop 1000+ on chokepoints) but perhaps a per-planet cap of 10 or 20.

Personally 20 rebuilder cap per system is not enough for a fallen spire campaign choke system just saying. Especially true when you consider that your fallen spire campaign econ can actually handle a full rebuild from scratch typically if you manage to push them back out.

[Cinth]

Personally, I think the situation would be vastly improved if the cap on Rebuilders either increased dramatically, or just plain went away.

Going away would lead to problems (I know some of you would drop 1000+ on chokepoints) but perhaps a per-planet cap of 10 or 20.

RB don't work that well in large numbers anyway.  Even with my chokepoints, I usually only need at most 30 (and that's just to have extra in the system).

[TechSY730]

Keep in mind, making non-HW planets not totally "self retaining" (like the lack of auto self respawning command centers) serves an important balance role, to give the AI an opportunity to deny remote or isolated systems (in this case, denying retaking them).

IMO, this is a good dynamic, as it gives a good offset to the advantages of a non-contigous "empire". Is it too harsh right now, and/or is the current system skewing " denial of the deny" more in the "annoying " rather "deep/fun counterplay/strategy" direction? Maybe. But I think something that makes holding, keeping, and retaking remote systems more challenging than connected systems is healthy for the game, even if the exact mechanisms may need to be tweaked (which I am still not convinced of)

That said, it would be nice to get a remains rebuilder cap increase and a bit more durability.

[Wingflier]

Kind of torn on this. On the one hand, the extra micro of having to rebuild a planet every time you lose it is frustrating. On the other hand, giving players free passes that allow losing a planet to be almost a non-factor because it can rebuild itself within seconds sounds silly. Maybe if the self-rebuilding could not even happen unless there were no enemy ships left on the planet is a good compromise. Perhaps remains rebuilders could be their own separate unit which builds things manually while a system is in place to automatically rebuild planets once they are completely clear of threats? Players can always use the Shark subplots to make losing planets even more devastating. Though I feel that clearing a planet of threats before it can automatically rebuild itself is enough of a tax.

[Cinth]

That said, it would be nice to get a remains rebuilder cap increase and a bit more durability.

What if they had a slightly lower cooldown on their ability to "rebuild"?

[brianc]

I know you guys are open to odd ideas; why not give remains rebuilders and engineers weak weapons, boost their costs for both metal and energy, and keep the cap as is?  Maybe even allow them to be upgradable in an offensive capacity?  Or not, and just let them do 1dmg every 12 seconds along the lines of wormhole guard posts (hopefully that's what I'm thinking of) just in the name of making things a little more entertaining to watch.

[Vyndicu]

What if they had a slightly lower cooldown on their ability to "rebuild"?

This would be a horrible idea because it would cripple fallen spire choke system because they would have so many stuff to rebuild. (full mk 1 - mk 5 of all turrets + mobile forts + shields + mines + etc...) Even a tiny slight delay would cripple rebuilding even with a full cap of rebuilder on planet ignoring that typically you will want defense your backwater systems as well.

[keith.lamothe]

On the other hand, giving players free passes that allow losing a planet to be almost a non-factor because it can rebuild itself within seconds sounds silly.

Bear in mind that the command stations themselves have a delay after destruction before they can be rebuilt.  Iirc it's 90 (or 60?) seconds for military stations, and 240 for other stations.

[Cinth]

What if they had a slightly lower cooldown on their ability to "rebuild"?

This would be a horrible idea because it would cripple fallen spire choke system because they would have so many stuff to rebuild. (full mk 1 - mk 5 of all turrets + mobile forts + shields + mines + etc...) Even a tiny slight delay would cripple rebuilding even with a full cap of rebuilder on planet ignoring that typically you will want defense your backwater systems as well.

What?  Unless I missed something recently, remains rebuilders have a delay between firings. Reducing that delay would increase the rate at which they can reconstitute your defenses.  Of this is subject to the strength of your econ.

I thought I was known around here for my over the top, AI annihilating, 16 HW supported chokepoints? Am I going to have to find an old SS and relink it here? 

[Vyndicu]

Naw no need to. In the beta for Destroyer of Worlds I manage to spawn a (Exodian Blade homeworld assault) golem each 10 to 15 second. I practically had to revert to an earlier save game, before Exodian Blade was repaired, to finish it.