Rebuilding is a big part of the "grind."

[Buttons840]

I'll skip right to my proposal.

Human controlled command stations should have a "scrap" form when they are destroyed, and after the system is idle for a period of time (perhaps 2 minutes) they would then rebuild themselves, which would then trigger the construction of automated remains rebuilders and engineers.

I enjoy defending and it's fun to have a wave crush planet after planet as you work at stopping it before it reaches your homeworld, but this is also very frustrating to me because I know I'm in for a annoyingly long period of click-click-click in order to rebuild my planets.  It would be nice if after an AI attack failed, I could just clean up my planets and then have all my command stations auto-rebuild.

Rebuilding a remote planet isn't so trivial (although with transports it's still probably pretty easy), so perhaps you should require supply in order for the command station to auto-rebuild.  This way there would be a chain of auto-rebuilding command stations.  If you have supply on the planet anyways, it's trivial to build a constructor on your planet and send it one planet over to manually start rebuilding - but again, I dislike having to manually rebuild where there are so many other interesting things to think about in this game.

[Echo35]

I enjoy defending and it's fun to have a wave crush planet after planet as you work at stopping it before it reaches your homeworld, but this is also very frustrating to me because I know I'm in for a annoyingly long period of click-click-click in order to rebuild my planets.  It would be nice if after an AI attack failed, I could just clean up my planets and then have all my command stations auto-rebuild.

All you need to do is build one command station though. If you have things set up properly, the rest of the planet does rebuild itself. You shouldn't be rebuilding command centers frequently enough that it's an issue just building that one structure.

[chemical_art]

I'll skip right to my proposal.

Human controlled command stations should have a "scrap" form when they are destroyed, and after the system is idle for a period of time (perhaps 2 minutes) they would then rebuild themselves, which would then trigger the construction of automated remains rebuilders and engineers.

EDIT: 2 minutes? More like 15 minutes for me, I mean if you want it faster, build you own colony ship!

It would help reduce some micro, and I love reducing micro, but I wonder if this mechanism is possible? Extractors, which use this mechanic, don't leave remains but are entirely rebuilt. You would have to leave a remains of some sort on the planet to remember what kind of station there was, but you can't allow the remains to built quickly.

Also, if you were to do this on the human side, you may then have to figure out how the AI can also recolonize (or at least refortify) neutral space as well. I know that idea is on the backburner for awhile, but its always a cool idea.

[BobTheJanitor]

If it required supply and perhaps rebuilt just as quickly and requiring as many resources as a normal command station, I could see this being useful without being exploitable. Perhaps a requirement that there are no hostile ships in the system before it can be done? We wouldn't want a scenario where you can just keep rebuilding a command station on a world full of AI ships over and over as some sort of distraction tactic. But something that avoided having to build a bunch of colony ships and send them to their destinations and wait and then go to each world and tell it to build... that wouldn't be too bad. This doesn't hurt much in normal campaigns perhaps, but in something like Fallen Spire, I did have to go through and rebuild 3 or 4 worlds in a row after big exo-waves.

[Red Spot]

I could see this being useful without being exploitable.

It pretty much is exploitable, now you cant set up a 'plan' that requires you to become owner of a line of planets larger than 5 as you cant build more than 5 colony-ships, where you can still pull it of but at the cost of micro.
Allow CCs to be rebuild based on remains and you will give players like myself a huge potential to make it an exploit, without the micro.

Some things should imo not work auto-magicly.

My 0.8 cents

[BobTheJanitor]

The proposed change would require supply, though. So you can't rebuild a line of 6 planets at once.  You have to build one, then the next, then the next. It would actually be faster, in the scenario of 5 planets in a line all down, to send out 5 colony ships to drop all the comm stations at once. So I'm still not seeing the potential for abuse here, but maybe I'm not thinking about it hard enough. What sort of exploitable scenario are you talking about with more than 5 planets here, bearing in mind that you first have to have already built a comm station on each of them through the normal colony ship method, and that you have to have supply on every planet before it can rebuild?

[Red Spot]

I could expand in a circle around my terf, if I would have 8 planets surrounding my terf I could effectivly conquer 8 planets in 1 go.

Not saying that letting them rebuild would be bad, but not 'just'. For instance have it linked to an other building, which again comes with a cap of 5. Is this 'other building' not present on the planet (in the form of remains or not), than no CC will rebuild(no remains left behind), if it is present remains will be left behind so the number/distance of remains-rebuilders and engies heavilly influences its effect. Again limiting you even more in how fast it would happen 'auto-magicly'.

Edit: just realised that the above would also allow a simultanious taking of up to 10 planets. Or the 'other building' should share a cap with colony ships.

[BobTheJanitor]

It's not 'conquering' or 'taking' 8 planets in one go, though. This is only rebuilding broken comm stations. It's built into the premise that you have to have already taken the planet and built a fully working comm station there. So you have to move in a colony ship and do it normally for any actual 'taking' of planets. If, later on, that planet gets smashed, this change effectively only means that instead of building a colony ship one planet over, you build a remains rebuilder. (There's not going to be one on the destroyed planet, because if the comm station is dead you can bet that any remains rebuilder or engies you had there bought it already as well) It's a convenience thing that requires less micro clicking, but that's it. You're still building a unit, then sending a unit to the world to make the comm station come back, you're just not having to go to the world after the fact, click colony ship, click comm station type, click spot on map.

I guess in your scenario with 8 planets all down at once and connected to your worlds, yes, you would be able to rebuild them slightly faster than you would otherwise, but it's really just from the reduction of micro. The colony ship goes away as soon as you build the comm station, so once you got one station planted, you can build another colony ship, send it to the next planet, and so on. If cost is a factor, you could add in the cost and time of building a colony ship to the rebuild cost/time on the comm station.

It's not really that much of an aggravation to rebuild the normal way, and I don't know if this would be a pain to code in, but I just don't see it as having much of a real gameplay balance effect if it were to be implemented.

[Red Spot]

What I am effectivly worried about is that building a CC, letting it get wasted .. doing this to several planets, and than just send some FRD-rebuilders around the uni having a whole line of planet effectivly get back into human hands (with all the bonuses) without any need to really pay any attention to the planet.
Doing this you can say conquer outwards 10 planets and just unload a rebuilder from a transport and have it bring back the planets CC in order to build engies in order to regroup/repair/reinforce. Undoing the tweak that was made that your colonyships all die when you lose the CC on that planet.
It makes it less exploitable by requiring it to need supply, but that just means you keep a transport with a colonyship standing by a planet back which might be shielded from enemy fire by the fleet on the next planet.

It isnt a bad idea it just requires some 'hard cap'. Also I cant deny having read Chris state he wants you to feel it when you lose a planet, it should have some impact. Were tweaks made in that regard will be (partly) undone by this suggestion.

[Echo35]

It's not 'conquering' or 'taking' 8 planets in one go, though.

Drop colony ship on planet, start building, let it get blown up by the AI, rinse wash repeat until you have remains on every planet you want. Revoke AI control, instantly have a few dozen planets (Well, not INSTANTLY since they take time to build, but you know what I mean).

[BobTheJanitor]

Still not seeing it. I build a comm station on a planet, presumably without clearing the AI at all in this scenario. It gets blown up. I send over a rebuilder and rebuild it. It gets blown up again. I send another one... We can go all day like this. I still have to actually TAKE the planets with the fleets and the shooting and the combat and so on. Once that is done, OK, I can send over a remains rebuilder and have a command station get built in the same time and at the same cost as it would normally take... but I have to click a few less times.

I mean I'm not trying to be intentionally obtuse here, I'm just not understanding why this is a problem. Sorry if I'm aggravating you! 

[Buttons840]

If it required supply and perhaps rebuilt just as quickly and requiring as many resources as a normal command station, I could see this being useful without being exploitable. Perhaps a requirement that there are no hostile ships in the system before it can be done? We wouldn't want a scenario where you can just keep rebuilding a command station on a world full of AI ships over and over as some sort of distraction tactic. But something that avoided having to build a bunch of colony ships and send them to their destinations and wait and then go to each world and tell it to build... that wouldn't be too bad. This doesn't hurt much in normal campaigns perhaps, but in something like Fallen Spire, I did have to go through and rebuild 3 or 4 worlds in a row after big exo-waves.

I agree, and think you've articulated some points I wanted to make in my first post.  The the posts kind of digress:

@Red Spot:  You can't just rebuild a CC with a remains rebuilder, it would be a special kind of scrap that doesn't need any external activity to rebuild.  It must be in supply as well; this prevents the "I have a planet deep in enemy territory that will never die" scenario.  EDIT:  Let me clarify again, a command station remains would not be reconstructible by remains rebuilders, it would be something special and different and rebuild itself but only if in supply.

I think it sounds pretty simple from a programming perspective considering the other mechanics present in the game.  It would save a little micro and wouldn't be exploitable.  You couldn't have AI on the planet if you wanted the CC to auto-rebuild -- If there are a few AI, you'll have to rebuild using a colony ship.  Considering colony ships can be ordered, built, rushed through the wormhole, and begin construction in about 5 seconds, I doubt the auto-rebuild mechanic would be any faster.

It would mainly be useful for boarders like mine which are weak yet deep, and I'll often lose a command station here or there and get tired of rebuilding.  Then we might see more loose and dynamic planet arrangements rather than the "super impenetrable awesome planet" which everyone likes to hide behind.

[chemical_art]

It's not 'conquering' or 'taking' 8 planets in one go, though.

Drop colony ship on planet, start building, let it get blown up by the AI, rinse wash repeat until you have remains on every planet you want. Revoke AI control, instantly have a few dozen planets (Well, not INSTANTLY since they take time to build, but you know what I mean).

But the remains  wouldn't exist until after paying the AIP cost of taking the planet in the first place, meaning you already effectively own it from the AI's standpoint. Letting the AI repeatedly blow up your worlds will render them useless (or at least, expensive and unstable) energy and economic resources.

Also, with the original proposition, the planet would have to be clear of enemies for a period of time before resuming building. Any border aggression from an enemy world will waltz right onto your neutral planet if it is undefended, resetting the counter until you clear them out. Since there will be no engineers or re builders on the world (unless you bring some in yourself) it would also take at least a minute, which is plenty of time for AI to blow up an undefended border planet.

[Buttons840]

I never intended for "command station scrap" to be rebuildable by remains rebuilders.  They just rebuild themselves, but only when in supply, and only after a period of time without any AI presence.

[BobTheJanitor]

I never intended for "command station scrap" to be rebuildable by remains rebuilders.  They just rebuild themselves, but only when in supply, and only after a period of time without any AI presence.

That I don't know if I'd agree with. I'm all for minimizing micro, but I don't necessarily like the idea of having no input into whether or not a station rebuilds. And yeah, I could just scrap it, but then my only options are let it rebuild when it wants to or scrap it and have to send a full colony ship back later. Letting it be rebuilt like all other scrap gives you control over the action while requiring the minimum amount of effort.